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Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

bbc.com

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Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#281

Post by mwsfc »

cpleppert wrote: post #173
NotYourLawyer wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carbon fiber seems like a weird choice for this application anyway because its big advantage is in its tensile strength compared to its weight. Here, it’s in compression, not tension. And its light weight doesn’t matter.

Carbon fiber is a lot easier to work with than metal in this case because welding metal creates failure points. I don't think they could afford building a titanium pressure vessel. Weight is a factor too, carbon fiber is lighter so you can make the pressure vessel thicker and still have enough buoyancy to reach the surface(probably a good thing). From their perspective it kinda made sense even though its not safe at…

Obviously there seem to be some compelling reasons why the choice of a carbon hull was a faulty idea to begin with. The CEO would have been familiar with those critiques and proceeded anyway, presumably because of counter arguments he put more confidence in. Anyone out there familiar with what some of those counter points may have been?

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#282

Post by Dylan16807 »

asynchronous wrote: post #235
codetrotter wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the average person here is probably a lot closer to taking a holiday trip in a submersible than to taking a refugee boat across the Mediterranean There is no way in hell I would pay $250k to board a janky-ass sub going deep into the ocean. For $250k, I could buy a nice house for me, my girlfriend and our future family. And even that is not possible yet. Because I don’t have that kind of money.

Reminder too that literally everyone is one country-ending catastrophic event away from being on a refugee boat

What kind of single events could destroy most countries without taking out half the world or all of the world?

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#283

Post by wepple »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #215
stonogo wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was not recognized as an expert by other deep-sea submerisble experts. He was repeatedly warned about safety issue with this design. These events are tragic, but they were predictable and avoidable and that makes it frustrating.

Another testament to the magic of speaking confidently about something to others who know nothing about that something.

I often figure that you only need about 25% more knowledge/expertise on a topic than others to seem like an expert, and for them to be incapable of actually judging your knowledge

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#284

Post by uppiiii765 »

Certhas wrote: post #187

It is notable how much news-coverage this received (for understandable reasons [1]) relative to the almost simultaneous disaster in the Mediterranean [2], where a shipwreck killed hundreds of people. [1] What springs to mind: Dramatic search action well suited for live blog coverage; psychological impact of the idea of people stranded in a submarine for days; And of course the average person here is probably a lot cl…

Is it?

We (I say this not from my point of view) don't want to see poor people.

We don't relate to them and we think they should just be successful in their countries.

In contrast there is someone who is part of us, not poor, has achieved something and entertained us in an interesting way.

Of course we will try to help them and not those refugees.

The mental issue of us living great while 3th world countries exist is nothing new for a long time.

It's now even so old that there is research done on how to help people because the obvious things didn't work.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#285

Post by helios_invictus »

btgeekboy wrote: post #220
accrual wrote: post #157

Here are a couple of quotes I pulled from the USCG press release: > "debris is consistent with a catastrophic implosion of the vessel" > "1600 feet (487 meters) from the wreck of the Titanic" > "it is a smooth bottom", "there is no wreckage of the Titanic in the area" > "size of the debris field is consistent with an implosion in the water column" > "there doesn't seem to be any connection between the noises and the…

Part of me has been wondering if the noises being heard might be an unexpected discovery of a military (Russian, Chinese, US) submarine operating in the general area. Don’t they submerge for long periods of time without comms?

They do, but not the depths we're talking about (12,500 feet)

https://navalpost.com/how-deep-can-a-submarine-dive/ The depth limits of the most known nuclear powered submarines’ depth limits, as follows;

Typhoon-class: Test depth 900 m (3,000 ft) Astute-class: Over 300 m (984 ft 3 in) Akula-class: 480 m (1,570 ft) test depth for Akula I and Akula I Improved, 520 m (1,710 ft) for Akula II and III, 600 m (2,000 ft) maximum operating depth Ohio-class: Test depth >240 m (800+ ft) Virginia-class: Test depth >240 m (800+ ft) Borei-class: Test depth 950 m Rubis-class: Test depth 350 m Barracuda-class: Test depth >350 m

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#286

Post by unnamed76ri »

sigstoat wrote: post #253
sandworm101 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many rescue ships were deployed to the med incident? How many to the titanic? The victims/ships ratio demonstrates that one garnered exponentially more government attention.

different countries of very different sizes and capabilities were near the incidents. the US and Canadian coast guards don't operate in the Mediterranean, and (presumably) couldn't have gotten ships there fast enough to do anything about it, anyways.

Splitting hairs here but the US Navy has several bases in the Mediterranean. Though I don’t know where vessels were related to the refugee boat or how quickly that tragedy began and ended.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#288

Post by lm28469 »

sandworm101 wrote: post #217
timeon wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your observation but Mediterranean disaster had coverage since last week at least in European news I am following. This accident will also soon disappear from the news since we now know the fate.

How many rescue ships were deployed to the med incident? How many to the titanic? The victims/ships ratio demonstrates that one garnered exponentially more government attention.

> How many rescue ships were deployed to the med incident? How many to the titanic?

I don't know. Do you ?

From wikipedia: "Immediately following the sinking, the Greek Coast Guard and the military initiated a massive search and rescue operation."

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#289

Post by sigstoat »

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #230
PartiallyTyped wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something about tragedies, and something about statistics... But there's also the concern of frequency, [2] occurs more frequent than [1], people generally don't care about the people at [2] because they are "unimportant", and not prominent in any way. They are background characters on the other side of the world for many, they are not well dressed, they do not perform functions with significant influence on the broa…

The comparison between these two stories is being made (elsewhere on the Internet) because humans were literally still being found and fished out of the Mediterranean, alive, while entire nation states mobilized to try to rescue a few wreckless rich guys who were likely already dead. The point being made is about misallocation of resources, not news coverage. (Novel stories will always grab more attention.)

> The point being made is about misallocation of resources, not news coverage.

what resources? were US and canada supposed to ship deep sea ROVs over to the Mediterranean to help refugees?

even if you wanted the US/Canada to help, it wouldn't have been the north atlantic coast guards doing it.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#290

Post by dctoedt »

vsareto wrote: post #271
hawk_ wrote: post #206

I am curious how we (the society) justify the shared costs incurred in searching for people involved in such a reckless mission.

Real-world training for the newbies, exercise for the journeymen, and teaching moments for the experts. That alone is worth my tax dollars for keeping a robust search and rescue force. At least some of the CEO's estate should go to paying for it, but pay out to victims' families first.

> Real-world training for the newbies, exercise for the journeymen, and teaching moments for the experts. That alone is worth my tax dollars for keeping a robust search and rescue force.

This. When the shit hits the fan, and lives could be at stake, the participants in responsive operations seem to focus more intently, and the lessons learned seem to get imprinted more firmly, than when it's a drill.

(There was a reason that when Pearl Harbor was attacked, the emergency radio transmission that went out was, "Air raid Pearl Harbor X This is no drill." [0])

I suspect the psychology might be related somehow to Samuel Johnson's dictum that "When a man knows he is to be hanged in a fortnight, it concentrates his mind wonderfully."

[0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/12/0...

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