Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs • Hacker News Board

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#731

Post by somewhat_drunk » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 3:16 PM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #621

wilg wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The load is spread out in a completely different way than gas, because 100% of gas cars get gas at a station, while 80% of people with EVs slow-charge at home (or work or whatever). Fast chargers are for road-trips only. Obviously, if we're going to move to cleaner energy we will need infrastructure investment. Worrying that it's not already there makes no sense. The demand for improved electrical infrastructure will…

> Obviously, if we're going to move to cleaner energy It is very unclear whether electric vehicles actually are more environmentally friendly. They sound great - but if you dig into where all the materials come from, it's shocking how externalized we've made that problem. It might be cleaner by time you get to drive it... but it's not cleaner to produce and operate, and in fact may be worse in some cases. Emissions a…

>It is very unclear whether electric vehicles actually are more environmentally friendly.

No, it really isn't. Google it, and ignore right-wing sources, which are more often than not complete garbage these days.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#732

Post by Kirby64 » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 3:28 PM UTC

simondotau wrote: post #693

Robotbeat wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chademo supports bidirectional charging. But bidirectional charging means you basically need a DC fast charger, and those are like $10k. (Hard to find an actual number online besides Alibaba… it’s always an “inquire for price” email quote button… which tells you it’s gonna be like $10k.) By far the easiest way to pull power from an EV is from the 12V subsystem. The DC-DC converter for EVs usually is like 2kW, so it’s…

As Tesla moves to replace the 12 volt subsystem with 48 volts, it would seem even more plausible to do V2L by routing outgoing power through the 48 volt system. The Ford F150 Lightning does V2L through the 9.6kW of on-board inverters. Fairly sure it's not capable of sending that back through J1772 / CCS2 unless I'm mistaken?

The F150 Lightning does V2L via the CCS port. It's supported, just the only car that I'm aware of that does this is the F150 Lightning.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#733

Post by Kirby64 » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 3:45 PM UTC

dreamcompiler wrote: post #697

meragrin_ wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why is everyone fleeing the North American standards J1772/CCS1 in favor of Tesla's? What do these car companies stand to gain switching the charging port? They don't own charging networks.

J1772 won't go away. It's only for Level 2 (AC) charging. It doesn't compete in the DCFC space. CCS1 is what will go away. Apples and oranges.

I bet it will. Why would you bother hampering the design of the charge port door by requiring it to be large enough to cover both J1772 and NACS? The adapter solution is much easier for Tesla and others. And the adapters are cheap.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#734

Post by bseto » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 3:59 PM UTC

zdragnar wrote: post #278

MattRix wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a big fan of Tesla myself, but surely if they figure out self driving that’ll make their cars relevant for the forseeable future? On top of that they seem to be able to make cars cheaper and more quickly than most of the incumbents.

My driveway is windy and gravel. I live at the end of a windy, gravel road with a steep drop off on one side. The road it connects to is a back country road with NO lane markings at all. Deer are prone to watching you approach, then jumping out at the last minute. You need to slow down when you first see them, not when they start moving. I doubt FSD will get to the point I would ever fully trust it outside of a freew…

a big FSD youtuber (100k subs, Dirty Tesla) Lives outside the city on gravel roads.. .and it seems to do ok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt56idWv9rw&t=10s&ab_channel...

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#735

Post by iknowstuff » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 4:11 PM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #480

athenot wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true. Though the electric batteries do have the advantage of having already paid the "thermodynamics tax". Some of the energy in gas will go towards heat losses; energy that cannot be converted to movement.

But that thermodynamic tax is a negative in very cold climates where the electric vehicle will see a major change in total travel distance compared to ICE.

Heat pumps make it more efficient to convert the fuel to electricity at a big, efficient power plant, and then to heat, than to burn the fuel itself for heat in an internal combustion engine (or at home for that matter)

It’s overall a net positive.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#736

Post by ihattendorf » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 4:15 PM UTC

tannedNerd wrote: post #142

wlesieutre wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not much of a practical problem until some other charging network builds out enough NACS chargers that a Tesla driver would try using anything other than a Supercharger. Looks like the cutoff for this is vehicles before May 1, 2019.

It’s more like may 2020. I don’t know anyone who got a car delivered in 2019 ( mine included) that has support for ccs

Were these vehicles _built_ after May 1, 2019 or just delivered after that date?

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#737

Post by iknowstuff » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 4:21 PM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #621

wilg wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The load is spread out in a completely different way than gas, because 100% of gas cars get gas at a station, while 80% of people with EVs slow-charge at home (or work or whatever). Fast chargers are for road-trips only. Obviously, if we're going to move to cleaner energy we will need infrastructure investment. Worrying that it's not already there makes no sense. The demand for improved electrical infrastructure will…

> Obviously, if we're going to move to cleaner energy It is very unclear whether electric vehicles actually are more environmentally friendly. They sound great - but if you dig into where all the materials come from, it's shocking how externalized we've made that problem. It might be cleaner by time you get to drive it... but it's not cleaner to produce and operate, and in fact may be worse in some cases. Emissions a…

So previous commenters have presented some facts for you. But since human brains tend to reject facts when they don't match their world view, I am curious - have you changed your stance, or continue to believe what you said?

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#738

Post by mensetmanusman » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 4:35 PM UTC

iknowstuff wrote: post #735

mensetmanusman wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that thermodynamic tax is a negative in very cold climates where the electric vehicle will see a major change in total travel distance compared to ICE.

Heat pumps make it more efficient to convert the fuel to electricity at a big, efficient power plant, and then to heat, than to burn the fuel itself for heat in an internal combustion engine (or at home for that matter) It’s overall a net positive.

Yes, but note that this type of 'overall thinking' sometimes has interesting consequences. Eg overall globalization raises wages, but it decimated rural economies in the west and caused a lot of social harm leading to the rise of populism.

The odometer shock that will start hitting low wage earners forced to migrate to EV may have less important but similarly surprising unintended consequences.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#739

Post by ma11 » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 5:06 PM UTC

angry_moose wrote: post #43

kozziollek wrote: post #26

Offtopic: could people that write news titles please learn how to capitalize words? Or can we make sure that at AI will know it, when most of news are written by it? Took me 3 tries to parse the title. "Rivian Joins Forces" - is that name of an organization? - "with Tesla"... nope, that doesn't make sense. "Rivan Joins forces" (somebody to do something), syntax error got "with". "Rivan joins forces with Tesla" - yay!…

The article is titled correctly per most style guides: Generally speaking, AP style uses title case for headlines, which means all words are capitalized except for certain short words, such as articles and short prepositions. In AP style, headlines capitalize the first word, proper names, or proper abbreviations, verbs, pronouns, adjectives, and adverbs. Words that should not be capitalized include: Articles (a, an,…

What you say about AP style is not quite correct. Actually, AP uses sentence case for headlines. Title case is only used for composition titles, i.e., the titles of books, movies, plays, etc.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#740

Post by BluePen7 » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 5:28 PM UTC

TexanFeller wrote: post #667

vegardx wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people don't drive 500km per day, the average is closer to 50 or so. So on average, you could easily top of your battery pack on 240V/10A circuit. That would be around 10kWh, which you'll do in 5 hours. Double the average and you'll still be topped up next morning.

Many people often travel regularly, like I do to visit family 150mi away. It would sure be nice to be able to charge while I'm at their house at a rate that would fill me back up. Range and charging speed matters, y'all shouldn't be just hand waving it away.

As a new Model 3 owner, I've been looking into how to do this.

The solutions aren't particularly nice, there's the Quick220, a device which does all the safety checks of manually combining 2 circuits on opposite phases so you can actually get 12A at 240V. But it requires 2 circuits on opposite phases, neither with GFCI (which most outdoor outlets have).

Second option is a NEMA14-50 extension cable, which obviously carries it's own risks but if there's a dryer outlet on a 30A breaker, that gets you 24A at 240V.

But yes, either solution requires a bunch of bulky cords running out the door, and the assumption that the houses' electrical wiring was done properly and is in good condition.

So far the only less-invasive alternative is hoping they have a 20A circuit somewhere convenient, rather than just the kitchen plugs, then you can get an extra 33% charging speed (16A @ 120V) with the proper 5-20 adapter.

I think the more practical solution will be private plug-sharing, there's already a few apps and startups advertising I can earn money by allowing others to book my home charger, and a proper home install can do 11kw.