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Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

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Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#271

Post by theFletch »

traceroute66 wrote: post #206
dahfizz wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The long term future of Tesla is a battery manufacturer and a charging network. Those are the two things they are good at. The cars themselves are quickly being beaten out by the larger players.

> The long term future of Tesla is a battery manufacturer and a charging network. Those are the two things they are good at. Agree 100%. At present, Tesla really feels like a bit of a "Jack of all trades, master of none" job. I'm certainly no Elon fanboi, but I will happily state that there are clearly a number of things they do well (certain core components and the charging network). But the cars themselves as a who…

> Cheaply built, but sold at a premium price.

How many successful brands have been built off that one sentence alone?

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#272

Post by Kirby64 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #154
bloggie wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is indeed totally insane, but this is what is being worked on, not necessairly for cars but trucks and semi trucks for example that have much larger batteries than a car. Already to achieve 250+ kW charging stations have to have huge cables and watercooled connectors, here's one such installation I saw some years ago https://i.imgur.com/BpG4QAa.jpg and an example of a cooled connector for 0.5 MW https://www.phoeni…

I assume the next jump in power will come from voltage. A Model 3 pulls ~600A when charging at 250kW, because it's relatively low voltage. If they alter the charging design to accept 800 or 1000V we could see over half a MW without a change in cable design. But I'd guess at this point that would be moot because the cell charging rate is the real limit anyway.

Migrating to higher voltage doesn't do anything to charge batteries faster. The only advantage is that you can decrease the size of the cabling since current goes down. On the other side though, you need to move all drive circuitry, motors, etc, to handle higher voltage architecture, which may end of costing more overall.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#273

Post by 93po »

spike021 wrote: post #251
alistairSH wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood why front-center didn't become the standard here. That would obviate more stand placement and cable length issues. The only people who stand to lose are those weirdos who reverse into parking places. ;) (Rear-center would work too)

>The only people who stand to lose are those weirdos who reverse into parking places. ;) As a weirdo who reverses into parking spaces, I find that it's almost always safer doing that in a crowded parking lot than it is to park nose in. When you're driving up to the spot you're already (hopefully) fully attentive to any risks (children, animals, people crossing, whatever), and can wait or carefully drive around those…

Many modern cars have very good backup cameras that also show incoming traffic from both sides and don't required 5 eyeballs

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#274

Post by jameshart »

93po wrote: post #266
johndhi wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure Tesla's moat is that people think they are cool and other EVs aren't.

Or that they have, by far, the best products at given prices.

JD Power has Rivian, MINI and Kia scoring higher than any Tesla model.[1]

Polestar, Ford VW, Audi and Hyundai are in the same ballpark for ratings.

Several of those manufacturers have cars in the 30K range, well below the prices Tesla is starting at.

That moat seems pretty small these days.

[1] https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2023-us-elec...

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#275

Post by light_hue_1 »

echelon wrote: post #241
erikstarck wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, the mission of Tesla is to transition the world to sustainable energy. If you believe them, that should be enough. But, second of all, this also makes business sense. Everyone will have to use the Tesla app, where they can get targeted offers and become a kind of "Tesla Light" customers. People wonder why Tesla doesn't advertise. Well, with these deals, the need for advertising is a lot less than withou…

Not so sure I believe this strategy. An app isn't going to make me buy a car or Tesla equipment. Aesthetics, utility, and cost are my main purchasing decision dimensions, and Tesla isn't winning those for me. I'm not buying something shaped like a prune that can't haul gear and equipment. The ads on Uber and other delivery apps are irrelevant to my daily life. Uber claims advertising has generating $500M in ARR, but…

Couldn't disagree more. We really wanted an ev. Even bought it when there were no incentives available. Nothing to do with the global market or regulation.

It's a superior experience in every way. From the performance, to the software, to the charging. I just plug it in and never think about charging. On long drives it needs a topup when our family does.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#276

Post by HWR_14 »

starik36 wrote: post #217
dahfizz wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The long term future of Tesla is a battery manufacturer and a charging network. Those are the two things they are good at. The cars themselves are quickly being beaten out by the larger players.

My wife drives a Tesla and I drive newish rental cars on a reasonably frequent basis. So I have a basis for comparison. They are definitely not being beaten by larger players. At least not at this stage. Their software is top notch compared to the mish-mash of home grown and Car Play on other vehicles. And the implementation of AutoSteer (free cut down version of self driving) is far superior to what I've seen in oth…

I've never seen "software" (by which I assume you mean the consumer facing stuff in the cabin) that made me want to buy a car. Yes, I've seen Tesla's. It looks fine. So does a radio with 6 buttons.

If I want anything, I have a cellphone. It's impossible to compete with "put that UX through better speakers/mic/screen"

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#277

Post by laweijfmvo »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #83
pornel wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The physical shape of Tesla/NACS is way better: it's more compact, and easier to plug in. The CCS connector OTOH is a lazy retrofit of a design-by-committee plug. The wire protocol of CCS is a bit overengineered, but it's a standard, and it's a sunk cost (all cars, including current Teslas, are already compatible with it). So physical NACS + CCS protocol seems like the best of both. It's also worth pointing out that…

Not all Tesla's can speak CCS. Older Teslas need a $400 retrofit to be able to use the Tesla CCS1 adapter. https://shop.tesla.com/en_ca/product/ccs-combo-1-adapter

I had the retrofit done on my 2018 MS. Have never once successfully charged at a non-Tesla charger. I'm not sure if it's me or the charging stations, which are somewhat known to be less reliable in general than Tesla's.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#278

Post by zdragnar »

MattRix wrote: post #189
dahfizz wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The long term future of Tesla is a battery manufacturer and a charging network. Those are the two things they are good at. The cars themselves are quickly being beaten out by the larger players.

Not a big fan of Tesla myself, but surely if they figure out self driving that’ll make their cars relevant for the forseeable future? On top of that they seem to be able to make cars cheaper and more quickly than most of the incumbents.

My driveway is windy and gravel. I live at the end of a windy, gravel road with a steep drop off on one side. The road it connects to is a back country road with NO lane markings at all. Deer are prone to watching you approach, then jumping out at the last minute. You need to slow down when you first see them, not when they start moving.

I doubt FSD will get to the point I would ever fully trust it outside of a freeway or city, and almost certainly never for the 2-3 miles closest to my house.

Now, if they can get the cars cheap enough that I can actually afford one, I might be interested. There are 4-6 trips I take a year in the 250-400 mile range, with zero public transport available inbetween (rural-ish to rural-ish areas), and not paying for the gas would be nice.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#279

Post by Kirby64 »

josefresco wrote: post #118

Tesla fans before 2023: The Supercharger network is just supplemental! Most charging is done at home, range anxiety is BS! Tesla fans after 2023: The Supercharger is our most important competitive advantage! Any automaker not adapting our standard will die!

When has this ever been true? The supercharger network was always one of the key advantages of a Tesla over any other EV: you could actually have a reliable fast charging network, as opposed to the patchwork of other questionable charging networks. You actually could, reliably, expect a road trip to not have any issues.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#280

Post by wilg »

dagmx wrote: post #112

I’m glad there finally seems to be a push to a better standard in North America. I’m really curious how this affects Teslas market share though going forward. Their supercharger network is why we continue with them despite countless other issues. It’s their biggest moat as far as I’m concerned. Now I have significantly more options, and my next car will not be a Tesla. I’m sure I’m not alone in that. Is the brand nam…

Market share isn't a good metric for a company that started out with 100% market share and therefore has nowhere to go but down. I think Tesla will continue to be successful selling cars and grow the number of cars they sell at a high rate.

Also, it sounds like this move is a really good incentive from a product perspective. If there really are a significant of people who only chose Tesla because of Superchargers, then they'll be forced to fix those problems. Though, personally, I really like my Model Y and someone would have to come up with a WAY superior car to get me to switch. I certainly wouldn't want to go back to one of these legacy car company's cars with their poor software, bad UX, and ugly and overwrought design aesthetic. Also, a lot of their competition is still on paper. Rivian is probably the nicest option for a non-Tesla EV right now.

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