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Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

arstechnica.com

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Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#841

Post by ilamont »

somenameforme wrote: post #774
major4x wrote: post #666

One shall not obsess with the game controller they use, I suppose, in their analysis, failing the controller wouldn't prevent the sub from resurfacing... It is symptomatic, however. The whole Silicon Valley is like that. You have the old guard, NASA, millions for fault analysis, rumors go the C code on some NASA rocket was certified at $1000 per line---human eyeballs reading it... All those start-ups and unicorns, th…

Like the video [1] mentions, they were only improvising on things (including the controller) that would not pose a safety hazard if they failed. The critical components like the capsule were designed alongside NASA and others. People aren't just tossing safety to the wind, but trying to create a better balance. NASA does spend a extreme amount of money on compliance and safety - yet that doesn't prevent them from doi…

The critical components like the capsule were designed alongside NASA

I saw that claim, and wondered what it entailed. The founder is clearly in the mold of testing mission-critical/life or death systems in production, while skirting or floating the rules. Such a claim is like one of those logos you see on the front of software start ups home pages, claiming some usage by Google, MIT, or CERN, without any verification or context.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#842

Post by davewritescode »

tredre3 wrote: post #16
srmarm wrote: post #3

The US Navy uses an Xbox 360 controller in active service [0] Mass market has a lot of R&D to leverage so it makes sense. Nothing to say this is the cause of the fault and probably going to be more reliable than something hand rolled. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/19/16333376/us-navy-military...

I personally believe using mass market makes sense. I don't understand the criticism I've seen on this website for using off the shelf controllers or camping lights (what do you expect, an LED strip magically engineered by a large aeronautics firm specifically for the sub? and what would that change?). That being said, the difference between a Microsoft controller and a third party is that Microsoft very certainly di…

> I personally believe using mass market makes sense. I don't understand the criticism I've seen on this website for using off the shelf controllers or camping lights (what do you expect, an LED strip magically engineered by a large aeronautics firm specifically for the sub? and what would that change?).

Using something off the shelf is completely fine, but it doesn't get you off the hook from doing the work of certifying that it's safe and fit for purpose. If you've ever used a modern game controller (even ones made by Microsoft), many of them are prone to issues with the potentiometer which causes the joysticks to drift subtly in one or more directions. Not ideal for controlling life critical systems.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#843

Post by expertentipp »

cm2187 wrote: post #49
srmarm wrote: post #3

The US Navy uses an Xbox 360 controller in active service [0] Mass market has a lot of R&D to leverage so it makes sense. Nothing to say this is the cause of the fault and probably going to be more reliable than something hand rolled. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/19/16333376/us-navy-military...

The controller itself is probably reliable enough, like any cheap keyboard on amazon. I wouldn't want my life to rely on bluetooth though.

The moment the crew enters onboard and their mobiles have bluetooth enabled, a race of pairing sounds ensues.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#844

Post by expertentipp »

oynqr wrote: post #764
kiririn wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there’s one place I’d bet my life on Bluetooth it’s at the bottom of the ocean with absolutely no other signals of any kind

Except the smartphones everyone brought along.

I wonder what ads are displayed 3000m under the sea surface?

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#845

Post by ceejayoz »

lb1lf wrote: post #801
weird-eye-issue wrote: post #776

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the capsule considered the only critical safety component? If everything else fails wouldn't it just fall to the bottom of the ocean? Even if it can survive that depth that only sounds good on paper. Nobody could get to you.

The capsule itself is positively buoyant. As long as it can jettison the ballast (and is not tangled up in something on the seabed, say, the Titanic), it will come to the surface.

And the ballast is held on via electromagnets. Lose (or deliberately cut) power, you're going up.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#846

Post by hef19898 »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #822
gambiting wrote: post #820

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As it's explained in another comment - the CEO wanted it tested but there isn't a facility anywhere on earth equipped to test it. Perhaps the argument then is that part of the company funding should have been building a custom rig designed for testing this highly custom 5 inch thick carbon fibre shell - but it's not like options to test it were available and were ignored.

This is not true either. As the submarine commander interviewed lays out, the testing is done by actual dives, and there is a certification body for it. Almost every other deep sea exploration submarine is certified. However, getting certified is voluntary. Of course, certifying it just means that independent experts take a look at the design and use sensors during dives. All of these vehicles are experimental. But n…

It is almost like there are already deep sea subs in existence. And that people already figures out how to test, and certify, them.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#848

Post by barelyauser »

ceejayoz wrote: post #845
lb1lf wrote: post #801

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The capsule itself is positively buoyant. As long as it can jettison the ballast (and is not tangled up in something on the seabed, say, the Titanic), it will come to the surface.

And the ballast is held on via electromagnets. Lose (or deliberately cut) power, you're going up.

Isn't this like a huge waste of energy?

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#849

Post by jimnotgym »

rob74 wrote: post #747
major4x wrote: post #666

One shall not obsess with the game controller they use, I suppose, in their analysis, failing the controller wouldn't prevent the sub from resurfacing... It is symptomatic, however. The whole Silicon Valley is like that. You have the old guard, NASA, millions for fault analysis, rumors go the C code on some NASA rocket was certified at $1000 per line---human eyeballs reading it... All those start-ups and unicorns, th…

The use of the controller is symptomatic of their attitude, but I agree that it's probably not as relevant as, say, using an untested (and apparently untestable) carbon fiber hull: > Lochridge’s concerns mainly focused on the company’s decision to rely on sensitive acoustic monitoring – cracking or popping sounds made by the hull under pressure – to detect flaws, rather than a scan of the hull. Lochridge said the com…

If the news report is true, some sonar bouy heard a knocking sound.

If they were knocking on the hull, at least we can be fairly certain that the hull did not implode.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#850

Post by hasmolo »

twic wrote: post #834
sn41 wrote: post #757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting... This is similar to the concerns that Vince Weldon, the Boeing engineer had over the 787 Dreamliner hull made of composites: that flaws could not be found by a visual scan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Weldon

I have a carbon fibre fork on my bike. I had a low-speed accident a few years ago, and took the bike to a mechanic to get it checked out afterwards. He said he'd checked everything, and it was fine - except the fork, which he had no way of telling if was undamaged or about to fail. I think i'll get steel next time.

this isn't true anymore. you can get carbon bikes scanned after and accident to find any internal damage. Ruckus in Portland, OR is where i've shipped to before with luck, but there's a lot more local options now depending on the scene
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