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Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

arstechnica.com

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Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#41
post #17

> According to the BBC, the entire sub is bolted shut from the outside, so even if the vessel surfaces, the occupants cannot escape without outside assistance and could suffocate within the capsule. Why is the submarine bolted shut from the outside?

Easiest way to shut it?

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#42
post #35
post #8

Stupid question, perhaps: was/it possible for this sub to have any kind of beaconing or communication system that works at depth? It seems like one of this first things I'd investigate before deciding to build a sub.

I was wondering how naval submarines work when they get in trouble. I would expect to see some sort of emergency button (internally) that you could press, that would release some sort of buoy, that would float to the surface and start transmitting with gps etc. I think that would help narrow down the search. The buoy would be in an external container (to prevent pressure problems), with explosive bolts or something t…

From what I understand, naval submarines typically have a signaling device called an EPIRB mounted in such a way that it's released automatically if the sub dives significantly below crush depth and/or if a switch isn't activated on some set interval. Then it pops up on the surface and says "Hi, wreck here."

I don't think the former system would have worked here anyway, since the sub is supposed to get very close to the bottom.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#43
post #17

> According to the BBC, the entire sub is bolted shut from the outside, so even if the vessel surfaces, the occupants cannot escape without outside assistance and could suffocate within the capsule. Why is the submarine bolted shut from the outside?

It makes no sense as the pressure would prevent you from opening it from the inside anyway until you are back on the surface.

It makes sense if you want a simple construction. Bolting it from the outside is easier than an internal mechanism.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#44
post #3

The US Navy uses an Xbox 360 controller in active service [0] Mass market has a lot of R&D to leverage so it makes sense. Nothing to say this is the cause of the fault and probably going to be more reliable than something hand rolled. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/19/16333376/us-navy-military...

Worth noting they use the controller to steer the periscope, not the sub. A component failure there has a significantly smaller risk to human life.

Oh absolutely and probably with a manual backup too.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#45
post #16
post #3

The US Navy uses an Xbox 360 controller in active service [0] Mass market has a lot of R&D to leverage so it makes sense. Nothing to say this is the cause of the fault and probably going to be more reliable than something hand rolled. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/19/16333376/us-navy-military...

I personally believe using mass market makes sense. I don't understand the criticism I've seen on this website for using off the shelf controllers or camping lights (what do you expect, an LED strip magically engineered by a large aeronautics firm specifically for the sub? and what would that change?). That being said, the difference between a Microsoft controller and a third party is that Microsoft very certainly di…

> and what would that change?

Suitability for purpose. Some obvious ones:

Defined and validated environmentals (temperature, voltage, and in this case pressure).

Qualified components — capacitors chosen for lifetime rather than shaving a cent, perhaps avoidance of MEMS oscillators with helium sensitivity.

Failure analysis. Low and understood probability of fail-unsafe conditions (short circuit), mitigation for those risks, fume-proof and fire-proof PCB materials to protect the sealed environment in case of failure.

Redundancy to handle failures anyway. Multiple independent strings so that single-point failure lead to partial loss of lighting, not all of it.

Load ahedding, eg dropping all but one string at a known voltage above minimum voltage, to save power for other more critical loads during system failure scenarios.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#46
There's a BBC documentary from last year which I just watched:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0fpz9zw

and honestly a lot of it seems quite amateur hour. One of the steering motors was fitted backwards. When they discovered this, at the bottom of the ocean and a few hundred feet from Titanic, the solution they used was to hold the gamepad at right angles to compensate. That time they proceeded with the tour and made it back, but I can see how things could have gone a lot more wrong.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#47
post #40
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue most people on Reddit were discussing is that it’s a cheap off brand controller, rather than a higher quality name brand controller (from Sony or Microsoft)

How is Logitech “off brand”. They are well known for input devices.

I've been using Logitech input devices since before Sony or Microsoft ever made one.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#48
post #40
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue most people on Reddit were discussing is that it’s a cheap off brand controller, rather than a higher quality name brand controller (from Sony or Microsoft)

How is Logitech “off brand”. They are well known for input devices.

It's Reddit

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#49
post #3

The US Navy uses an Xbox 360 controller in active service [0] Mass market has a lot of R&D to leverage so it makes sense. Nothing to say this is the cause of the fault and probably going to be more reliable than something hand rolled. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/19/16333376/us-navy-military...

The controller itself is probably reliable enough, like any cheap keyboard on amazon. I wouldn't want my life to rely on bluetooth though.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#50
post #19
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally believe using mass market makes sense. I don't understand the criticism I've seen on this website for using off the shelf controllers or camping lights (what do you expect, an LED strip magically engineered by a large aeronautics firm specifically for the sub? and what would that change?). That being said, the difference between a Microsoft controller and a third party is that Microsoft very certainly di…

Logitech has orders of magnitude more experience in manufacturing peripherals than Microsoft. That said, Logitech does make products in a wide price range and the low end isn't competitive with their own high end.

FWIW, I'd estimate that Microsoft has sold something like 200 million Xbox controllers.
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