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Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

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Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#621

Post by Alupis »

wilg wrote: post #523
Alupis wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is obvious though, isn't it? Our current infrastructure simply cannot handle a ton of EV's all wanting to charge up all day long - as is done currently with gas stations all over the country. It'll take decades to bring our infrastructure up to where it needs to be to support this - yet people act like we're already there. Some states still struggle just to keep the lights on during major parts of the yea…

The load is spread out in a completely different way than gas, because 100% of gas cars get gas at a station, while 80% of people with EVs slow-charge at home (or work or whatever). Fast chargers are for road-trips only. Obviously, if we're going to move to cleaner energy we will need infrastructure investment. Worrying that it's not already there makes no sense. The demand for improved electrical infrastructure will…

> Obviously, if we're going to move to cleaner energy

It is very unclear whether electric vehicles actually are more environmentally friendly. They sound great - but if you dig into where all the materials come from, it's shocking how externalized we've made that problem. It might be cleaner by time you get to drive it... but it's not cleaner to produce and operate, and in fact may be worse in some cases. Emissions aren't just from the tailpipe after all - yet that appears to be what most people focus on.

> Worrying that it's not already there makes no sense

It makes a lot of sense when the government (both state and federal) are pushing initiatives and incentives to force EV's into commonplace. Our infra just cannot handle it, even with trickle chargers like you've claimed. Which means it will be a net-worse experience for people, and they will resist future clean energy pushes as being disingenuous.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#622

Post by pests »

erinnh wrote: post #599
ianburrell wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Level 2 can charge up to 19kW (240V at 80A) but 12kW (50A) is more common. NACS also can't do three-phase power. Three-phase power is rare in the US, it is only found in commercial locations that need it.

How does the US get to 240v if you guys don’t have multiple phases at home? Not an electrician, but here In Europe we get to 400v by combining the three 240v phases we get.

We don't have three phase but power coming into most panels in the United States has two 120V lines that are 180 degrees out of phase so that's enough to construct the 240.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#623

Post by sangnoir »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #617
sangnoir wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it can support higher voltage in a new revision, but that means currently deployed chargers have an inferior design in that aspect, doesn't it?

> it can support higher voltage in a new revision, but that means currently deployed chargers have an inferior design in that aspect It's tough to bring currently deployed chargers to CCS's defence, given most deployed chargers are Tesla's.

That sounds like goal-shifting, considering I was arguing against gp's rather absolute claim on NACS having superior design and engineering:

>> It's better engineered and designed. It's that simple

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#624

Post by jryle70 »

echelon wrote: post #564
light_hue_1 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't disagree more. We really wanted an ev. Even bought it when there were no incentives available. Nothing to do with the global market or regulation. It's a superior experience in every way. From the performance, to the software, to the charging. I just plug it in and never think about charging. On long drives it needs a topup when our family does.

I live in place where the parking is super weird. Historical building with historical grounds. We're literally not allowed to resurface the parking because it's all historic. Part of an old steam power plant between cotton mill buildings from the 1800s. How am I going to fuel my vehicle? We won't be able to install power at limited distribution sites for everyone. 300 residents with their own EVs is going to make sha…

You can still buy a new ICE well into 2030s in the US, if you truly need one, meaning you can keep driving it until 2050s. By that time window the majority of cars on the road will be EVs, and the charging infrastructure will have changed substantially. I doubt it'll take that long for it to be upgraded though. I bet many people in your building will drive an EV by 2030. Most of them even.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#625

Post by jliptzin »

carcostthrow wrote: post #602
jliptzin wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in a rural location and now in suburbs and still never had any issues, even 4 years ago when there were far fewer chargers. Here is a map of the level 2+ chargers in the country: https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/fi... With 300 miles of range all you have to do is get to the next charger and if you're willing to spend 5 minutes in advance to plan your road trip it really doesn't add an…

> I lived in a rural location and now in suburbs and still never had any issues, even 4 years ago when there were far fewer chargers. Here is a map of the level 2+ chargers in the country: As he said, different circumstances can shift the solution point. What you have someone that doesn't have a data plan on their phone, or doesn't carry a smartphone and thus doesn't have access to a mapping app? Or the charge point…

You need fast charging at home, end of story. If you can only get 120V at home, forget it. That being said once you do get it, it's so nice never having to stop at a gas station again.

As for insurance, you should shop around. Not sure what's on your driving record, but it was $90/mo for me to insure my brand new model 3 when I had that vehicle. But I don't have any tickets/accidents or large claims.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#626

Post by jliptzin »

hinkley wrote: post #568
jliptzin wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in a rural location and now in suburbs and still never had any issues, even 4 years ago when there were far fewer chargers. Here is a map of the level 2+ chargers in the country: https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/fi... With 300 miles of range all you have to do is get to the next charger and if you're willing to spend 5 minutes in advance to plan your road trip it really doesn't add an…

Who has a real 300 mile range? That Bolt was going to get lucky making over 180.

I've done 300 actual miles with my model 3 (long range) and now with my X as well. I've heard the Ioniq has good range as well and I'm sure more models are being released every few months from other brands with actual ranges over 300

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#627

Post by fomine3 »

Robotbeat wrote: post #427
sp332 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NACS doesn't have a standard for vehicle-to-home (or vehicle-to-grid) charging. When they opened up the standard, Tesla said that it was allowed, but they didn't specify any standard way to do it. So it might happen, but there's potential for incompatibilities between car manufacturers and charging systems.

Chademo supports bidirectional charging. But bidirectional charging means you basically need a DC fast charger, and those are like $10k. (Hard to find an actual number online besides Alibaba… it’s always an “inquire for price” email quote button… which tells you it’s gonna be like $10k.) By far the easiest way to pull power from an EV is from the 12V subsystem. The DC-DC converter for EVs usually is like 2kW, so it’s…

Cheapest Chademo bidirectional V2H equipment for home in Japan costs 500k JPY https://etex.jpn.com/info/v2hhojyo/ https://www.nichicon.co.jp/products/v2h/about/specs/

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#628

Post by JumpCrisscross »

sangnoir wrote: post #623
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it can support higher voltage in a new revision, but that means currently deployed chargers have an inferior design in that aspect It's tough to bring currently deployed chargers to CCS's defence, given most deployed chargers are Tesla's.

That sounds like goal-shifting, considering I was arguing against gp's rather absolute claim on NACS having superior design and engineering: >> It's better engineered and designed. It's that simple

> sounds like goal-shifting, considering gp's rather absolute claim on NACS having superior design and engineering

CCS currently supports 800V. NACS is going to support 800V. The number of extant chargers with 800V capability is, to a reasonable approximation, the same for CCS and NACS. So NACS being able to support 800V rhetorically balances CCS being able to roll out 800V chargers (or any, period), at least in my mind.

Put another way, one solution is deployed and capable of upgrading. The other is also capable of upgrading, maybe comes upgraded already, but hasn't been deployed. The first strikes me as better engineered. (The latter may have superior design, but I have trouble buying that argument given NACS can be upgraded.)

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#629

Post by speed_spread »

cyberax wrote: post #522
speed_spread wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just charging data obviously, it's all the car usage data. Where you go, how fast, with who... And yes, after a few years, the value of that data is worth more than the original profit they made selling the car itself. Its also recurring revenue, they don't even need to sell you a new car to keep making money. There's a reason the Ford CEO declared a few years back that Ford was to become "a data company". T…

> Where you go, how fast, with who.. Where you go can not be inferred from the charging sessions. You can kinda infer the speed, by looking at the state of charger between two sessions. You can't infer with whom you're travelling. Honestly, people always overinflate the usefulness of "data".

Stop limiting the context to charging. I'm taking about Tesla the car following you everywhere.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#630

Post by meragrin_ »

perfectstorm wrote: post #471
mattmaroon wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like it’s happening without government intervention. It’s hard to imagine now that Ford, GM, and Tesla are on the same standard that the rest will not follow suit.

Volkswagen owns Electrify America the only competitor at scale to Tesla's supercharging network. they uses CCS and VW is one of the largest car manufacturers in the world. i think they can stand on their own. time will tell though.

> Volkswagen owns Electrify America the only competitor at scale to Tesla's supercharging network.

The only car manufacturer with a competitive charging network or only competitor period? ChargePoint seems better than Tesla my area. Most of the Tesla stations in this area require a hotel stay to charge.

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