Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

ev-edition.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

601–610 of 761 posts

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#601

Post by legulere »

Y_Y wrote: post #180
jaclaz wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In most of Europe homes do have 3-phase power and large loads like an EV are required to use it. Yes and no, distribution is usually 3-phase so the 3 phases do arrive to the building, but in a number of countries in Europe inside the home only 1 phase is used and the amount of available power (by contract) is a fraction of what the US are used to (of course depending by country, but it is rare that a house has a con…

An electric kettle can draw about 3kW, I've only once seen a home with a limit this absurdly low

Apparently there exists even 1.5 kW in Italy: https://tariffe.segugio.it/guide-e-strumenti/domande-frequen...

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#602

Post by carcostthrow »

jliptzin wrote: post #454
unregistereddev wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different people have different driving patterns and different needs. Some parts of the country have less (and crappier) charging infrastructure. Those parts of the country coincide with areas where places are further apart and you need more range. For some of us who happily live in flyover states, a PHEV is an awesome in between. I'm glad that an EV works out for you. Hopefully charging times (and charging infrastru…

I lived in a rural location and now in suburbs and still never had any issues, even 4 years ago when there were far fewer chargers. Here is a map of the level 2+ chargers in the country: https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/fi... With 300 miles of range all you have to do is get to the next charger and if you're willing to spend 5 minutes in advance to plan your road trip it really doesn't add an…

> I lived in a rural location and now in suburbs and still never had any issues, even 4 years ago when there were far fewer chargers. Here is a map of the level 2+ chargers in the country:

As he said, different circumstances can shift the solution point. What you have someone that doesn't have a data plan on their phone, or doesn't carry a smartphone and thus doesn't have access to a mapping app? Or the charge point requires a smartphone app that I don't connectivity to use with?

For me as well an EV is questionable. My gas burning SUV is $1100 a year to insure, tax included. A Tesla Model 3 at the same level insurance would could me $6014 a year before taxes. I don't drive enough to save $5000 in gas and maintenance a year.

Then there's my garage. Long story short, the best it can do right now is 120V 6A charge speed. To properly upgrade my garage to support a full EV would cost an additional $2500. Assuming if I also have to upgrade the electrical mains from 100A to 200A, it's $15,000 to $25,000. And my electricity costs 20 cents a kilowatt hour.

Does buying an EV it still make sense after all that if you were in my circumstances?

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#603

Post by recursive »

kristofferR wrote: post #578
recursive wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fastest chargers today are CCS.

It's a wash, basically. The fastest CCS chargers are ~360KW, and Tesla Supercharger V4 will apparently support 350KW within a year.

Tesla always gets credit for stuff they're about to do. And half the time they don't seem to end up doing it. Or hit their dates. Don't get me wrong. Tesla has some great chargers. But they're great on their actual merits.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#604

Post by darth_avocado »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #591
perfectstorm wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Volkswagen owns Electrify America the only competitor at scale to Tesla's supercharging network. they uses CCS and VW is one of the largest car manufacturers in the world. i think they can stand on their own. time will tell though.

Go check out some car forums for folks that depend on EA (like Lucid). I've never had an issue with EA, but the general consensus seems to be that EA reliability is abysmal, with stations frequently being down (though reviews seem to be on an uptrend starting in 2023, so perhaps it was a pandemic related issue). As another commenter stated, though, Volkswagen was forced to create EA as part of their Dieselgate settle…

EA is bad at best. Very unreliable network, especially the ones not near urban centers. Yeah you get reliable charging if you’re near big cities but once you’re out in the middle of nowhere, it can be terrifying. I’ve personally arrived at an EA charger to only find it not working and the next closest one was a 50 mile detour. Thankfully I plan liberally, but I’d be in a very bad spot if not. Someone I know, also had a locking problem where the charger wouldn’t detach. And I’ve seen news items relating to literal bricking of cars by using the chargers.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#605

Post by panick21_ »

kube-system wrote: post #569
93po wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is semantics. Firstly because this difference is largely because Tesla chooses to not deploy it as level 3 in some tiny highly-mapped market with sensors (LIDAR) and software that don't scale (MB's level 3 breaks at the first change in roads like construction). Secondly because Tesla is 90%+ of the way to building level 3 driving in 99% of places. MB is 99% of the way to level 3 driving in 0.1% of places and it…

It's not semantics at all. They're both currently focused on solving very different problems under the broad category of "driving automation". While MBs approach has obvious coverage limitations, the advantage to that approach is that the solution is a more clearly scoped problem with a more obvious answer: expand the coverage. Tesla's approach doesn't have nearly as clear of a path to advancement. They need technolo…

> currently focused on solving very different problems

MB is focused on highlines and providing little value for a very high price.

MB is simply no a software company I would trust. Company like Waymo have spend billions and billions to get to where they are and their software engineers are a hell of a lot better then those at MB if I know anything about German software engineering.

Tesla has deployed end to end neural networks that can handle a huge amount of situation and is getting better far faster then MB is improving its system. With MB approach it would take decades to get there and that if you assume really good execution.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#606

Post by HWR_14 »

skrtskrt wrote: post #316
HWR_14 wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those people are not buying a Tesla in the meantime I've noticed people signing leases on ICE cars to wait out the delivery of their preferred EV solution.

it would be amazing if more people realized that keeping the car you have is still the most environmentally friendly solution. I'm going to keep my ICE car until it is unreasonably old or impractical for me, which is probably at least 8 more years. At that point who knows what the electric car landscape will look like, but certainly production will be massively more ramped up. PHEVs will be the perfect car for most p…

In fairness, the people I know doing this want a new car. They are not trying to do the most environmentally friendly thing.

But I believe in old ICE as opposed to new EV, on environmental, economic and other grounds.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#607

Post by revscat »

carcostthrow wrote: post #602
jliptzin wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in a rural location and now in suburbs and still never had any issues, even 4 years ago when there were far fewer chargers. Here is a map of the level 2+ chargers in the country: https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/fi... With 300 miles of range all you have to do is get to the next charger and if you're willing to spend 5 minutes in advance to plan your road trip it really doesn't add an…

> I lived in a rural location and now in suburbs and still never had any issues, even 4 years ago when there were far fewer chargers. Here is a map of the level 2+ chargers in the country: As he said, different circumstances can shift the solution point. What you have someone that doesn't have a data plan on their phone, or doesn't carry a smartphone and thus doesn't have access to a mapping app? Or the charge point…

> A Tesla Model 3 at the same level insurance would could me $6014 a year before taxes.

I find that incredibly difficult to believe. According to [1], the average cost to insure a Model 3 is $2500, which tracks with what I am paying.

Who quoted you $6k/year?

[1] https://www.forbes.com/advisor/car-insurance/vehicles/tesla/...

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#608

Post by MetaWhirledPeas »

bisby wrote: post #554
gibolt wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government is actually requiring CCS1 (currently) to get that funding. This may change as more dominoes fall as others adopt NACS. Considering that nearly all U.S. manufacturers are now switching off of CCS1, this requirement makes no sense since infrastructure is meant to last.

Are the chargers/ports on cars easy enough to swap out, or are we manufacturing ewaste? If I were to buy a car with CCS today, and then in 2024, NACS wins, and all cars going forward have NACS, and all charging stations change to NACS as a result... In the year 2030, can I get the port upgraded, are the changing stations obligated to support CCS indefinitely, is there an adapter I can just keep in my car for NACS->CC…

> Are the chargers/ports on cars easy enough to swap out, or are we manufacturing ewaste?

I'm not sure those statements are mutually exclusive. All new manufacturing produces ewaste. CCS cars will still be chargeable in one form or another until the car itself dies.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#609

Post by iknowstuff »

sangnoir wrote: post #513
meragrin_ wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why is everyone fleeing the North American standards J1772/CCS1 in favor of Tesla's? What do these car companies stand to gain switching the charging port? They don't own charging networks.

Their agreements with Tesla are not public, so it's hard to tell what the benefits are. You say "everyone" is switching, but it's only American companies that have pledged to switch to NACS from CCS (so far), I don't think 3 for 3 is a coincidence. Also unlikely to be coincidental is the fact that Tesla "opened up" its charging patents/specs to competitors [1] in 2014 - but only signed its first partner in 2023, a fe…

Those 4 represent like 80-90% of EVs in the US

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#610

Post by panick21_ »

V__ wrote: post #379

Why are these automakers pushing to adopt Teslas solution, which isn't standardized or open, instead of creating a new CCS3? I can't imagine NACS to ever be adopted in the EU, so why the additional complexity?

Tesla solution is open.

Why not CCS3, because that would take many years to get going and no charging network for it would exist.

Tesla alone has 3000 Superchargers in the US. It would take decades to get CCS3 to that point.

> I can't imagine NACS to ever be adopted in the EU, so why the additional complexity?

That complexity is already there. NACS will be the standard in North America. CCS2 in Europe. Korea seems to insist in CHAdeMO and China GB/T.

A lot of the rest of the world is open to be captured by different standards.

Post reply on HN