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Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

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Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#51
post #45
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally believe using mass market makes sense. I don't understand the criticism I've seen on this website for using off the shelf controllers or camping lights (what do you expect, an LED strip magically engineered by a large aeronautics firm specifically for the sub? and what would that change?). That being said, the difference between a Microsoft controller and a third party is that Microsoft very certainly di…

> and what would that change? Suitability for purpose. Some obvious ones: Defined and validated environmentals (temperature, voltage, and in this case pressure). Qualified components — capacitors chosen for lifetime rather than shaving a cent, perhaps avoidance of MEMS oscillators with helium sensitivity. Failure analysis. Low and understood probability of fail-unsafe conditions (short circuit), mitigation for those…

Yes, if one had the budget to do all those things, from scratch, better than an existing component manufacturer.

Not many companies have NASA levels of "throw money at it until it works, and every part has been signed off on five times."

Absent that, I'm having trouble seeing how custom > COTS.

In all probability, anything in-house would have been worse and added new failure modes.

Better to buy, analyze, and adapt as needed.

And if it turns out you don't need to adapt, because failure modes aren't safety-critical or components are viable in the environment, then spend your time on something more useful.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#52
post #6

On one hand, 'if it ain't broke' etc. On the other, 'wait, what?'. The entire operation manages to somehow feel both incredibly sophisticated (it's not easy to get a sub to that depth) and simultaneously incredibly stupid.

There has to be a name for this kind of phenomenon. I am smart enough to know that I'm too dumb and ill-equipped to make a safe tourism business out of a homebrewed submarine. These people are smarter than me, but too stupid to know that they aren't smart enough to make a safe tourism business out of a homebrewed submarine.

Correction: these people were smarter than you, and they may have at some point recently come to understand that they couldn't make a safe tourism business out of this sub.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#53
post #50
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Logitech has orders of magnitude more experience in manufacturing peripherals than Microsoft. That said, Logitech does make products in a wide price range and the low end isn't competitive with their own high end.

FWIW, I'd estimate that Microsoft has sold something like 200 million Xbox controllers.

To be fair, Microsoft also sold a lot of Xboxes that were misdesigned from a thermal perspective, and thus red ringed themselves.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#54
post #46

There's a BBC documentary from last year which I just watched: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0fpz9zw and honestly a lot of it seems quite amateur hour. One of the steering motors was fitted backwards. When they discovered this, at the bottom of the ocean and a few hundred feet from Titanic, the solution they used was to hold the gamepad at right angles to compensate. That time they proceeded with the tour and mad…

"BBC iPlayer only works in the UK. Sorry, it’s due to rights issues".

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#55
post #49
post #3

The US Navy uses an Xbox 360 controller in active service [0] Mass market has a lot of R&D to leverage so it makes sense. Nothing to say this is the cause of the fault and probably going to be more reliable than something hand rolled. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/19/16333376/us-navy-military...

The controller itself is probably reliable enough, like any cheap keyboard on amazon. I wouldn't want my life to rely on bluetooth though.

Absolutely. The fella in the article is going wired though by the look of it.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#56
post #51
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and what would that change? Suitability for purpose. Some obvious ones: Defined and validated environmentals (temperature, voltage, and in this case pressure). Qualified components — capacitors chosen for lifetime rather than shaving a cent, perhaps avoidance of MEMS oscillators with helium sensitivity. Failure analysis. Low and understood probability of fail-unsafe conditions (short circuit), mitigation for those…

Yes, if one had the budget to do all those things, from scratch, better than an existing component manufacturer. Not many companies have NASA levels of "throw money at it until it works, and every part has been signed off on five times." Absent that, I'm having trouble seeing how custom > COTS. In all probability, anything in-house would have been worse and added new failure modes. Better to buy, analyze, and adapt a…

They were charging a quarter million per head. Budget should not have been a concern.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#57
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, as with airplane doors (but in the opposite direction), if the door was designed to open outwards then you couldn't open it under pressure no matter how hard you pushed

At those pressures I don't think you would want to open the door even if you could. I was more thinking about being at the surface and having nobody else to unbolt it from the outside.

Oh yes, I am (though I am absolutely not a real engineer nor do I have any experience with subs) just questioning why they would need to bolt it from the outside anyways. If it was to keep occupants in, I would imagine that a door that opens outwards would solve that issue if submerged, and would still be openable on the surface

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#59

From what I read it is also the first carbon fiber deep water vessel. I find that scary as carbon fiber does not start to bend before falure, it fails catastrophically.

I would honestly choose that over sitting on the bottom for 96 hours. Something about sitting there for 4 days with no hope is more terrifying to me.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#60
post #51
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and what would that change? Suitability for purpose. Some obvious ones: Defined and validated environmentals (temperature, voltage, and in this case pressure). Qualified components — capacitors chosen for lifetime rather than shaving a cent, perhaps avoidance of MEMS oscillators with helium sensitivity. Failure analysis. Low and understood probability of fail-unsafe conditions (short circuit), mitigation for those…

Yes, if one had the budget to do all those things, from scratch, better than an existing component manufacturer. Not many companies have NASA levels of "throw money at it until it works, and every part has been signed off on five times." Absent that, I'm having trouble seeing how custom > COTS. In all probability, anything in-house would have been worse and added new failure modes. Better to buy, analyze, and adapt a…

Absent engineering, an engineered solution is no better than COTS, agreed.

Absent engineering, people die unnecessarily.

Trade offs.

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