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Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

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Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#441

Post by outworlder »

evanelias wrote: post #418
jp191919 wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Bolt is about the worst EV someone could use for a road trip.

Eh, it's not great but it's totally doable as long as it isn't winter. My understanding is that a Nissan Leaf is much much worse than a Bolt for road trips... I just did an NYC to Cleveland trip in my Bolt EUV, along a route with only a few DC charging locations, and never once had to wait for an available charger -- even on Memorial Day. That said, if you need to use the heater, then yeah it's not viable for a road…

> My understanding is that a Nissan Leaf is much much worse than a Bolt for road trips...

As a Nissan Leaf owner, yes. Because of CHADeMO (that is going to be a big problem in a few years, as existing stations fail and don't get replaced) and because of the passively cooled battery pack. I can do one DC fast charging no problem without much change in battery temps (CA weather). 2 or 3 in the same day? Might get toasty.

That said, all EVs have issues during winter(Tesla included, their EPA ranges are way overstated). It's just that, for a Tesla, it's easier to find a supercharger.

The consumption difference due to speed affects all cars, no matter their drivetrain. For ICE, that burns a hole in your pocket as it causes you to stop at gas stations more often.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#443

Post by NoGravitas »

jdminhbg wrote: post #397
dahfizz wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my point. Tesla is good at a small handful of things, and making cars is not one of them. They could sell batteries, charging infra, software, and whatever else to the companies that are competent at building (and fixing!!) cars. They aren't going to remain competitive on the cars themselves

I still cannot figure out what Car People mean when they say Tesla is bad at making cars. What are you looking at that normal people don't see? The one thing I agree about is the yoke steering wheel, but that's on a high-end car nobody seems to actually buy.

I'm not a Car Person (I hate cars, electric ones included), but what I often hear said is that they feel very cheaply made, in terms of fit and finish, both interior and exterior. Panel gaps, water leaking into the trunk, squeaks and rattles. Mostly not very serious (not powertrain issues or anything), but nevertheless, not something you want to see on a car you're paying as much for as a Tesla.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#444

Post by davrosthedalek »

jaclaz wrote: post #245
traceroute66 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please don't generalize "Europe" when you aren't sure. (Also goes for the GP.) I have three-phase power in an 80m² apartment, as that's standard in Denmark. Now now kids, play nicely. ;-) I think the underlying question we should really be asking here is not willy-waving over whether you have a three-phase supply or not, but rather how large your main fuse is (there's a euphemism for you !). I'm not familiar with D…

>TL;DR you're still not going to have a supercharger at home any time soon. Yep, and even if you have 3 phases and a large main fuse, the issue remains when you sum all the power needed on a same street in a city. And I apologize if I seemed to improperly generalize.

I hope I am wrong on that, but this is exactly one of the two largely unaddressed problems for a complete change to an EV fleet in countries like Germany. 1) Do you have enough power delivery available, especially with the push to electric heat-pump based heating. That seems to be a serious problem, I heard from some people that they are not allowed to connect their heat-pumps, even in newly constructed areas! Solvable, with political will, but I don't see the will. 2) Where will people charge who park on the streets. It seems there are technical solutions (electrified curbstones), but again, political will to change much infrastructure is required.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#445

Post by claar »

vegardx wrote: post #319
philg_jr wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll never need that much power at home. Level 2 AC 240V 30-50A is fine for overnight charging. The way Tesla Supercharging works is by using a large bank of batteries for the heavy bursts of power draw (>100kW) during the initial periods of charging when the battery is warm and at a low percent. The batteries at the station are backfilled with less current from the grid in the background during periods of low use.…

I don't know about the NA, but that is definitively not the case for most superchargers (or any other brand of fast chargers, for that matter) in Europe. Batteries are expensive so this is only done in very special cases. I know they've used battery banks at some of the electrical ferries in Norway, simply because the cost of running new high-voltage power lines was deemed more expensive and the schedule of the ferri…

Just a nit pick: 10A @ 240V isn't enough to charge my Tesla Model Y overnight from empty - but 30A @ 240V (7.2kW) is.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#446

Post by jameshart »

andruby wrote: post #281
jameshart wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JD Power has Rivian, MINI and Kia scoring higher than any Tesla model.[1] Polestar, Ford VW, Audi and Hyundai are in the same ballpark for ratings. Several of those manufacturers have cars in the 30K range, well below the prices Tesla is starting at. That moat seems pretty small these days. [1] https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2023-us-elec...

Do they have electric cars in the 30K range? What’s the battery range for their entry level cars? (I only know Rivian’s pricing by heart, which starts at 75K)

Most people don’t need Tesla range. The MINI Cooper does 114 miles for under $30K, and Hyundai, Kia and Ford all offer 240 mile + ranges for under $40K.

Tesla Model 3 has 270 miles on the base model but you’re paying over $40k for that.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#447

Post by cduzz »

laweijfmvo wrote: post #277
bryanlarsen wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all Tesla's can speak CCS. Older Teslas need a $400 retrofit to be able to use the Tesla CCS1 adapter. https://shop.tesla.com/en_ca/product/ccs-combo-1-adapter

I had the retrofit done on my 2018 MS. Have never once successfully charged at a non-Tesla charger. I'm not sure if it's me or the charging stations, which are somewhat known to be less reliable in general than Tesla's.

I got the $450 adapter for my 2016; There's one charger I really wanted to use and otherwise I think it'll waste space in my trunk. I still haven't used it at that charger but I did test it at a CCS1 charger; it worked though it was a terrible experience - the CCS1 plug is silly huge, the payment processing was terrible, and it charged pretty slowly.

I think they're retrofitting the existing supercharger network to speak both "NACS" (really CCS1) and the OG supercharger protocol. My car, with the retrofit, will be able to (HA! good luck believing it'll actually work) charge at an EA or other DC Fast charger setup, possibly. Non-updated OG S/X cars will just get an error (probably I will also, because these other DC Fast chargers simply don't have skin in the game -- they're malicious compliance).

L2 will be nice -- I'll not have to use the dongle to charge at public chargers.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#448

Post by davrosthedalek »

jorvi wrote: post #184
saalweachter wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but keep in mind that if you can pump ten gallons of gas in a minute you're effectively drawing the equivalent of something like 20MW, so in the context of vehicle refueling it's not so crazy If 15 Teslas pass through a stretch of road per minute with full 100kWh battery packs, you could also describe that as 90MW of current, but it's also not really.

I always forget just how energy dense petroleum and its derivatives are..

Yes. One of the usual YT channels had this interesting picture. Gas mileage is miles per gallon. Or in this case, do it the European way: l/100km. The unit of that is an area. Typically a rather small one, ca 0.1mm^2.

That's the area of a trench you have to dig along your path if you want to supply your car from the trench instead of your gas tank.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#449

Post by davrosthedalek »

athenot wrote: post #258
jorvi wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always forget just how energy dense petroleum and its derivatives are..

This is true. Though the electric batteries do have the advantage of having already paid the "thermodynamics tax". Some of the energy in gas will go towards heat losses; energy that cannot be converted to movement.

And they are very efficient over a much larger rpm band. But the real win is the energy recovery from regenerative breaking.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#450

Post by dzader »

rootusrootus wrote: post #177
piinbinary wrote: post #34

I wonder if Tesla is repositioning from being a Ford to being an Exxon

That seems foolish from a business perspective. The one thing they're most successful at is cars. They built an incredible first-mover advantage in EVs, but that isn't at all true in the power market. They're just a blip in the battery market. And while superchargers are great, there's no moat there at all. If they're smart, they'll double down on cars like the Model 3 & Y, and instead of making them sillier (no stal…

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