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First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

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Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#781

Post by SaviorFaire »

Apofis wrote: post #745
ricksunny wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming DNI chooses to divulge that tidbit formally. Per Biden's published interpretation of that law, they can withhold anything on grounds of 'national security' (note not the narrower 'sources and methods' scope). https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases... What could 'national security' be construed as? : https://twitter.com/gdemaneuf/status/1669165325722722306?t=M...

National Security being anything that can be deemed dangerous to the Executive Branch. A very broad stroke these days, that's even used to paint opposing politicians by both parties.

[flagged]

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#782

Post by ETH_start »

mitchdoogle wrote: post #735
logifail wrote: post #725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Aggregate death numbers spiked If you're claiming that, for instance, those aged under 40 without any comorbidities were at significantly higher risk of dying due to the impact of Covid-19 I think it would be good to post a reference for that. The CDC publishes data showing causes of death by age cohort[0], it's worth looking at for the year 2020. Apparently they're still working on the 2021 figures. The short vers…

I can't be certain, but I think they were implying that aggregate deaths spiked more than you would expect. Look at data here: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm These numbers show that the number of deaths observed is beyond the sum of reported covid deaths + expected deaths from all other sources. Which indicates either that many covid deaths were misclassified as something else, or that t…

It's also possible that lockdowns were causing deaths.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#783

Post by ETH_start »

plagiarist wrote: post #663
carlmr wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ridiculed because trust was immediately violated, and trust is not what science is built on. However just being an everything skeptic without any scientific education is not good either. The problem was the politicization, the dishonesty, the corruption. Both camps were wrong plenty of times, none would admit to it, and public discourse suffered because neither side was willing to cede ground to actual science.

> The problem was the politicization, the dishonesty, the corruption. This one part is correct. For example, when they admitted to being wrong about masks after they had better information, lunatics claimed they were lying and corrupt. And they have been spreading wild-eyed propaganda to this day.

They knew from the start that masks were likely an effective prophylaxis. They lied to ensure medical frontliners had enough.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#784

Post by ETH_start »

rnk wrote: post #340
kneebonian wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it isn't about the effectiveness or the blame it was that we spent 2 years where many fundamental and basic rights were suspended because of fear. For me it is not about blame it is about reminding people how fragile our rights are and that there are people all to willing and eager to take them. Combined with the massive redistribution of wealth that happened as a direct result of government action that furthe…

We had an emergency health situation and the government made emergency rules. Those rules were rescinded later when the emergency was reduced, partly because of widespread vaccination. This is not the first time that during a health emergency the US govt at various levels made temporary stringent rules. It turned out that our political argument against the rules is probably why the u.s had a much higher death rate fr…

Absent a feasible zero-COVID strategy, which for most countries was never in the books due to their geographical situation, lockdowns have been found to have virtually no impact on reducing the spread of COVID.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13571516.2021.19...

https://sites.krieger.jhu.edu/iae/files/2022/01/A-Literature...

>>It turned out that our political argument against the rules

That framing is very disdainful toward the perspective that human rights should not be violated.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#785

Post by mike_hearn »

hwillis wrote: post #164
mike_hearn wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supposedly there was a problem for a long time with researchers selling used lab animals on the street to make a bit of extra cash.

That's ridiculous. The animals are transgenic mice.

Labs experiment on all sorts of animals. Serial passage is often done with ferrets for example.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#786

Post by object-a »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #599
seattle_spring wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not at all just a "thin mask and gloves." Just because Joe Rogan said this nonsense doesn't make it the truth. Here are the actual BSL2 requirements: https://uwm.edu/ibc/bsl2_requirements/

Yeah, no mask at all it seems.

> Infectious material used in procedures with a potential for creating aerosols or splashes, or used in high concentrations or large volumes, must be handled in an annually certified biosafety cabinet.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#787

Post by onethought »

Natsu wrote: post #774
onethought wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you haven’t spent time in China and realise they use their hospital system very differently. Often people will go to hospitals for minor fevers.

"Hospitalized" normally refers to staying at the hospital, not just visiting the ER, though it is a bit ambiguous.

So typically they have a "fever ward" and you will go there and receive an IV of Tylenol or something similar. I would be surprised if they didn't call that "hospitalisation". You are admitted, given a bed, a chart... not sure what else you'd call it.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#788

Post by throwawaylinux »

object-a wrote: post #786
throwawaylinux wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, no mask at all it seems.

> Infectious material used in procedures with a potential for creating aerosols or splashes, or used in high concentrations or large volumes, must be handled in an annually certified biosafety cabinet.

> Note: certified biosafety cabinet not to be worn as mask.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#789

Post by droopyEyelids »

lmm wrote: post #583
droopyEyelids wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is fun to think about but I dont buy it. All levels of aptitude/intelligence are equally likely to be conned because a con works by getting your emotions to turn your intelligence to the task of tricking you. For example, by exciting your greed so much you come up with a justification for why an unusual circumstance is genuine.

> For example, by exciting your greed so much you come up with a justification for why an unusual circumstance is genuine. But you might be better at that the more intelligent you are. E.g. I understand there's an established result that professional ethicists and ethics researchers act less ethically than the average person on average, because they find it easier to come up with excuses for how what they wanted to d…

Agreed! However, you're missing that the higher your aptitude, the higher the bar for tricking yourself.

So yes, a very intelligent person can come up with a sophisticated justification to trick themselves. A less intelligent person will come up with a less sophisticated narrative. Both people work on the con till it's enough to pass their bar, which is why I say it's a factor of desire rather than reason.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#790

Post by jasonlotito »

Gud wrote: post #674
jasonlotito wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. I aw that. But then I rely on the trustworthiness of the authors, and when I know for a fact at least one of them has been caught literally making up lies that, when uncovered, literally disprove the narrative they were pushing, it really destroys all credibility.

He was not “caught literally making up lies”. There was an error in his reporting. Perhaps he lied, perhaps he made a mistake. Please don’t turn to hyperbole. Or at least show me the evidence for his lies(not errors, which are not the same thing. Lies require an intent to misconstrue).

The report said one thing.

He changed it to something else, intentionally.

After "being corrected" he did not go back and fix all the assumptions made from that intentional change he made.

A typo is a mistake.

Intentionally changing what someone wrote/said is a lie. Especially for a journalist.

He's a liar. And those defending him are defending a liar.

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