Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#201

Post by SauciestGNU » Sun, Jun 18, 2023, 3:20 AM UTC

mplanchard wrote: post #148

tyingq wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is clear cut. Sort of. So you're pulled over for a brake light that's out. Then, they start asking "Where are you coming from?", "Why are you here?", "Do you live near here? (when they already have your address)", "If you're coming from that far, why don't you have luggage?" etc. I guess you can try to give as terse an answer as possible without coming across as rude? Saying nothing is your right, but they hav…

But it is clear cut! You don’t have to answer any of those questions. You only need to provide your identification and registration. Remember it’s not a normal social interaction. They use the fact that it feels rude to refuse to answer questions to get you to incriminate yourself. They’re playing a game, and so you need to understand the rules. Not answering is not being rude. Invoke your 5th amendment right and shu…

The meme lawyers from the "shut the fuck up Friday" video suggest saying "I'm not answering questions about my day", but they're meme lawyers so probably talk to a real lawyer if you want a real suggestion.

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#202

Post by mplanchard » Sun, Jun 18, 2023, 3:45 AM UTC

mindslight wrote: post #195

tyingq wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is clear cut. Sort of. So you're pulled over for a brake light that's out. Then, they start asking "Where are you coming from?", "Why are you here?", "Do you live near here? (when they already have your address)", "If you're coming from that far, why don't you have luggage?" etc. I guess you can try to give as terse an answer as possible without coming across as rude? Saying nothing is your right, but they hav…

So many responses aren't getting the point of this comment. Cops are basically trying to sort "good people" from "bad people", despite how regressive that is. Often times you'll get pulled over while being "guilty" of something that is completely understandable (newly broken tail light) or mostly used as a pretext to pull people over to investigate other things (5-10 mph over in most areas). If you stay terse with th…

Heck you don’t have to be rude to not answer their questions. If you’re young you can even blame your parents: “Sorry officer but my parents advised me to never answer any questions without my lawyer, so that’s what I’m doing.”

As an older person, if you want to deflect blame, you can blame your lawyer, your LEO cousin, or anyone else you want.

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#203

Post by mindslight » Sun, Jun 18, 2023, 3:48 AM UTC

x86x87 wrote: post #200

mindslight wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cop: "Here is your license and your ticket. You are free to go" ... Judge: "I have a written report here from Officer Trip saying he visually observed you going 32 mph in a 30 zone. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?" You: "No" Judge (thinking): I've never known Officer Pao R. Trip to be a stickler for speeding. There must be some story behind this You: "I did not say anything apart from asking if I was under…

here is a more realistic way this would play out: you get a ticket. forward the said ticket to a traffic lawyer. the cop does not show up and the ticket gets dismissed. ask me how i know. also, even if the cop does show up: 32 in 30 will get the cop laughed out of the room and the judge will be pissed cause he's wasting everyone's time. bonus points for the cop's name :) hahahaha.

There are jurisdictions where a written report from a cop suffices. That's what I was imagining for the description.

Your point is that you may get leniency from a judge, including demonstrating your class by hiring an attorney.

My point is that you can further decrease your chances of paying a ticket by also trying for leniency from the cop by acting nicer, iff the context is right. If it was a highway speed patrol, their goal is to fill a quota and you're likely boned once they've taken the time to pull you over. But town cops are often just looking for pretexts to pull over the wrong sort of person. Break their expectations and appeal to their humanity/authorituh, and there's a good chance they won't write you a ticket.

For example I got pulled over doing 35 in a 30 at night, in an area where 5-10 over is the norm. I had pulled out of an apartment complex where I was visiting a friend, in an otherwise boring-ass suburb. As I was backing out, the cop pulled in to round the apartment complex lot, and then followed me out to the road. When he pulled me over, I straight up told him "I saw you behind me but figured you didn't want to be stuck behind me doing exactly 30 for this whole road". He told me that apartment complex has a lot of drug activity - to which I expressed worried surprise, thanked him, and said my friend just lived there because it was close to and low rent. He ran my stuff, came back to the car, and I don't think he even gave me a written warning.

This certainly isn't an endorsement of "always talk to the police! they're so friendly and helpful!" I'm just saying there is something you're giving up by completely shutting down the social aspect.

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#204

Post by reducesuffering » Sun, Jun 18, 2023, 4:15 AM UTC

hknmtt wrote: post #33

remember, the police's sole purpose is to punish crime, not to prevent it. they don't care who they punish as long as they can add your number to their statistics. they are NOT your friends. that's just childhood brainwashing.

I must've just imagined the police preventing my neighbors' home burglary in the act, and stopping the time last week a man stripped naked and tried to assault the ladies at the nail salon. I'm the brainwashed one

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#205

Post by x86x87 » Sun, Jun 18, 2023, 4:27 AM UTC

mindslight wrote: post #203

x86x87 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

here is a more realistic way this would play out: you get a ticket. forward the said ticket to a traffic lawyer. the cop does not show up and the ticket gets dismissed. ask me how i know. also, even if the cop does show up: 32 in 30 will get the cop laughed out of the room and the judge will be pissed cause he's wasting everyone's time. bonus points for the cop's name :) hahahaha.

There are jurisdictions where a written report from a cop suffices. That's what I was imagining for the description. Your point is that you may get leniency from a judge, including demonstrating your class by hiring an attorney. My point is that you can further decrease your chances of paying a ticket by also trying for leniency from the cop by acting nicer, iff the context is right. If it was a highway speed patrol,…

nah. this is exactly the type of behavior that gets people in trouble. a cop is not your friend and this is not social hour.

if we are running on anecdotal evidence: every time I got a ticket I got it dismissed. 25mph zone, 40mph zone, freeway, school zone you name it. they do their number and "bark" at you. you get the ticket and take care of it later.

btw: traffic tickets are a racket. to give you an example: 72 in 60 on 405. Traffic was moving anywhere between 70-75, 4 lanes, i was in the left lane. One cop with a quota tried to give me a ticket. took the ticket and... you guessed it, got it dismissed. This is just the type of bullshit we have to put up with.

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#206

Post by mindslight » Sun, Jun 18, 2023, 4:34 AM UTC

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #183

RadixDLT wrote: post #113

what if you get into an accident, should you still give the police details?

The answer in the title. Never talk to the police.

That sounds like a good way to end up paying for an accident that you weren't actually at fault for. The fifth amendment doesn't apply to civil cases, and police reports are a large part of how insurance companies assign blame.

If "never talk to the police" sounds like a reasonable hard and fast rule to you, it's probably best that you just follow it. It's a good first brush.

But attorneys aren't magic. It's possible to judge your situation, recall facts, and represent your rights without saying things that further implicate you, or that can be misconstrued. Especially when dealing with relatively low stakes situations like a minor traffic accident, where hiring an attorney is basically equivalent to having lost.

If it's the kind of traffic accident that you're likely at fault for or someone went to the hospital or substances are involved, then you do indeed need to shut the fuck up.

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#207

Post by raincom » Sun, Jun 18, 2023, 4:45 AM UTC

dccoolgai wrote: post #194

kkielhofner wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The darker version is a Federal Agent says you told him something you didn't even say because it helps the case he's building. He asks you to repeat it on record and when you balk, he threatens you with a felony for "lying to a federal agent". This is shown in a scene from "Wolf of Wall Street"[0]. In this case the main agent gets his partner to come to within earshot of Jordan Belfort and asks Jordan to repeat his…

It's a little worse than that even - in that example, I think the feds are just trying to get him to repeat something _he said_. The way it works, is they meet with you alone: You say "A, B, C". They take some notes and write down "D, E, F" because it's what they want to hear or what they wish you said. A few weeks later, they present you with a written statement to sign that says "D, E, F". You protest "but I didn't…

That’s another reason to have a lawyer present to take notes, so that federal agents don’t get away with their legally protected lying on their reports.

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#208

Post by mindslight » Sun, Jun 18, 2023, 4:49 AM UTC

x86x87 wrote: post #205

mindslight wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are jurisdictions where a written report from a cop suffices. That's what I was imagining for the description. Your point is that you may get leniency from a judge, including demonstrating your class by hiring an attorney. My point is that you can further decrease your chances of paying a ticket by also trying for leniency from the cop by acting nicer, iff the context is right. If it was a highway speed patrol,…

nah. this is exactly the type of behavior that gets people in trouble. a cop is not your friend and this is not social hour. if we are running on anecdotal evidence: every time I got a ticket I got it dismissed. 25mph zone, 40mph zone, freeway, school zone you name it. they do their number and "bark" at you. you get the ticket and take care of it later. btw: traffic tickets are a racket. to give you an example: 72 in…

You've had much better luck than me getting tickets dismissed. I'm sure it's a jurisdiction thing.

Also faster than 30 mph on the 405? Your story doesn't check out. When was your last drink tonight, sir?

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#209

Post by lost_tourist » Sun, Jun 18, 2023, 5:21 AM UTC

paulpauper wrote: post #137

hollywood_court wrote: post #127

I was raised by career long LEOs. My mother and father and all 3 of my stepfathers were LEOs. They always told me to never speak to the police. Every interaction with a police officer is inviting trouble into your life. They exist to monetize your mistakes. They have no legal obligation to assist you in any manner.

what if you are asked to identify yourself such as for a speeding ticket or a Terry stop. I don't think it's clear cut.

you have to show your ID, you don't have to talk to the cop. It's not that hard to be respectful with yes, no, not sure, etc without giving away anything. Never consent to a search of your car. Not ever. Don't lie, if you don't want to answer something then simply decline.

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#210

Post by lost_tourist » Sun, Jun 18, 2023, 5:27 AM UTC

credit_guy wrote: post #165

mplanchard wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that you don’t know what the cop is doing. They might just be pulling you over for the reasons they stated, or they might be investigating some crime in the area and looking for suspicious people. Even a right or true answer can incriminate you in a certain light. Everything you say can potentially bite you in the ass later. Better to be a little inconvenienced and take longer to get home than say some…

> Everything you say can potentially bite you in the ass later. Even if they didn't read you your Miranda rights before? My knowledge of legal affairs comes only from movies, but I got the impression that things you say before they read you Miranda can't be used against you. Are all the movies wrong?

Miranda is for when they're getting read to arrest you. Before that it's just a convo between you and the cop, which can be used in court, that's why people say to keep it to talk about whatever they pulled you over for. You don't have to tell them where you're coming from or where you're going for example.