Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#171

Post by AnimalMuppet » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 9:59 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #89

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone tried to run me down with a car, what good can the police do? Arrest the person before they try to kill me again, that's what. Keeping me from dying is definitely "helping me".

Unlikely. In the case you describe without additional evidence they would have no basis for an arrest (otherwise you could have anyone arrested arbitrarily by accusing them of same). The police would likely only involve themselves if they actually succeeded in running you down. Even if there were video surveillance available they aren't going to go get a warrant and review the tapes because some guy came in accusing…

Trying to run me down is a crime - assault. (If they hit me, it's assault and battery.)

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#172

Post by pawelmurias » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 9:59 PM UTC

Johnny555 wrote: post #8

wiseowise wrote: post #5

[flagged]

Is there any country where it's advantageous to speak more than required to the police? (I'm sure there are some countries where you're required to speak more than in the USA where you're legally allowed not to speak at all without a lawyer)

There are countries where the policy can beat up with impunity or let you off for minor infractions. In the past in the Ukraine they also took bribes at every opportunity.

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#173

Post by tzs » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 10:02 PM UTC

CrampusDestrus wrote: post #70

everybodyknows wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Way to purpusefully misunderstand a very simple proposition

There is a lot of evidence that it is not such a simple proposition.

I've seen the submitted video discussed on a variety of internet forums over the years, and in most of them there were in fact a large number of people who take it as really meaning that you should never talk to police without your lawyer present.

E.g., you are walking down the street, and see two people arguing, one of then shoots the other, and then runs away. A police officer who was nearby hears the shot, comes over, and asks you which way the shooter ran. A lot of people say they would not answer that question without first consulting a lawyer.

Or you are in a building that collapses in an earthquake. You make it out but several people do not. Some police arrive, and manage to retrieve several people. They ask some of the people who were in the building if anyone of them know of anyone else who was in the building and is not accounted for. A lot of people say they would need to consult their lawyer before answering.

But there are also a lot of people who say it doesn't apply in those situations. They think it means don't talk to them when you are being questioned as a potential suspect.

Given the empirically observed divergence on people's understanding of what "don't ever talk to police without a lawyer" means it is perfectly reasonable to ask questions like everybodyknows asked.

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#174

Post by egberts1 » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 10:07 PM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #143

mplanchard wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is clear cut. There are situations where you are legally obligated to interact with the police, like providing your identification at a traffic stop. In any other situation, you should avoid interaction with the police.

> This is clear cut. Sort of. So you're pulled over for a brake light that's out. Then, they start asking "Where are you coming from?", "Why are you here?", "Do you live near here? (when they already have your address)", "If you're coming from that far, why don't you have luggage?" etc. I guess you can try to give as terse an answer as possible without coming across as rude? Saying nothing is your right, but they hav…

It is clear cut because when you obtained your driver's license, you have had already signed and agreed to reveal your name on a "traffic" stop because you are on public road with intent for commerce (or not).

Walking on the sidewalk, your D/L, not so much unless you were operating a vehicle, registered or not.

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#175

Post by AlbertCory » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 10:09 PM UTC

maerF0x0 wrote: post #12

His book is a good read: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/30532856-you-have-the-ri... He actually updates his stance a touch from the content in the video. Particularly in not just invoking your 5th amendment (the right not self incriminate), but also the 6th (the right to a lawyer before being interrogated) Also this is not a "if you have nothing to hide" kind of conversation, see another top item on HN today: ht…

The cops say, "if you have nothing to hide" and also "if you don't come in, I can't help you." Fortunately, Daryl saw through the latter one and didn't come in.

Yes, it's another plug for one of my Substack articles:

https://albertcory50.substack.com/p/baby-please-dont-go

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#176

Post by AlbertCory » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 10:10 PM UTC

thethimble wrote: post #149

tyingq wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is clear cut. Sort of. So you're pulled over for a brake light that's out. Then, they start asking "Where are you coming from?", "Why are you here?", "Do you live near here? (when they already have your address)", "If you're coming from that far, why don't you have luggage?" etc. I guess you can try to give as terse an answer as possible without coming across as rude? Saying nothing is your right, but they hav…

It seems like there’s a practical approach and a literalist approach here. I never understood the insistence of “don’t talk to the police” in relation to the questions above. If you can give the “right” answers, why wouldn’t you? I understand how this might be compromising fundamental rights, but at the same time I just want to get home. Is this wrong?

You need to watch the videos.

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#177

Post by mplanchard » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 10:12 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #173

CrampusDestrus wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Way to purpusefully misunderstand a very simple proposition

There is a lot of evidence that it is not such a simple proposition. I've seen the submitted video discussed on a variety of internet forums over the years, and in most of them there were in fact a large number of people who take it as really meaning that you should never talk to police without your lawyer present. E.g., you are walking down the street, and see two people arguing, one of then shoots the other, and th…

Yeah I guess a lot of lawyers and criminal justice advocates are really trying to get the point across that you should never talk to the police in a situation in which you could incriminate yourself, but which situations that entails is much muddier and hard to convey. I think it’s probably better on balance for people to bias more towards “never talk to the police,” given how often people self-incriminate and how the vast majority of most people’s interactions with police are at traffic stops.

But of course it’s a thing with nuance. If you’re being questioned for no obvious reason, being questioned at a traffic stop, or being questioned really about anything other than a crime you were the victim of, it’s probably best to stay silent. Of course here “questioned” is doing a lot of work. It in my mind doesn’t apply to the kind of “which way did he go,” or “are there people still inside” kinds of requests for quick information to help the officer do something entirely unrelated to you.

But if a police officer is focusing on you and asking you questions, I’d say that’s when the advice kicks in for sure.

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#178

Post by AlbertCory » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 10:12 PM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #143

mplanchard wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is clear cut. There are situations where you are legally obligated to interact with the police, like providing your identification at a traffic stop. In any other situation, you should avoid interaction with the police.

> This is clear cut. Sort of. So you're pulled over for a brake light that's out. Then, they start asking "Where are you coming from?", "Why are you here?", "Do you live near here? (when they already have your address)", "If you're coming from that far, why don't you have luggage?" etc. I guess you can try to give as terse an answer as possible without coming across as rude? Saying nothing is your right, but they hav…

I think the standard cop questions, "Do you know how fast you were going?" and "do you know why I stopped you?" are also invitations for you to incriminate yourself.

A polite "No idea, officer" is your answer.

Edit: to you guys claiming that's lying to an officer and you have to know your speed, I can only say show us the proof that that's ever happened.

I don't think that would ever come up in court, if you happened to challenge the ticket and if the cop happened to show up. He would say, "I clocked him at 65," you'd have no defense, case closed.

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#179

Post by mplanchard » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 10:17 PM UTC

everybodyknows wrote: post #168

mplanchard wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, in case it’s necessary, the advice above applies mostly in regards to talking to or being questioned by the police in situations where they are acting in their official capacity and in which you are not directly seeking their immediate assistance. It also applies when talking to police who are not acting in their official capacity about any real or alleged crime that you may be involved in in any way, no matter…

And what about witnessing a crime committed against some complete stranger? Considering separately both the cases of a crime in progress, and one recently completed? Also considering whether the crime is accidental e.g. hit-and-run, or professional, financially-motivated actors. Recall that among the latter class are the white-collar criminals capable of retaliation against witnesses, and the reason we have white-col…

Yeah exactly. There’s enough nuance here that it would be really nice to have a lawyer around to help you.

My take though is that there’s a difference between being questioned by the police and a police officer asking you for directions or asking “which way did he go” while chasing someone or something like that.

If I were a witness to a crime against someone else and was giving a statement, I would absolutely insist on having a lawyer present.

If I were a witness to an ongoing crime against someone else and could point the police in the right direction to stop it, I would of course do so.

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#180

Post by krapp » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 10:18 PM UTC

AlbertCory wrote: post #178

tyingq wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is clear cut. Sort of. So you're pulled over for a brake light that's out. Then, they start asking "Where are you coming from?", "Why are you here?", "Do you live near here? (when they already have your address)", "If you're coming from that far, why don't you have luggage?" etc. I guess you can try to give as terse an answer as possible without coming across as rude? Saying nothing is your right, but they hav…

I think the standard cop questions, "Do you know how fast you were going?" and "do you know why I stopped you?" are also invitations for you to incriminate yourself. A polite "No idea, officer" is your answer. Edit: to you guys claiming that's lying to an officer and you have to know your speed, I can only say show us the proof that that's ever happened. I don't think that would ever come up in court, if you happened…

>A polite "No idea, officer" is your answer.

You just admitted to reckless driving. You're not allowed to not know the speed limit or your own speed while driving - the speedometer is right in front of you, and the officer knows exactly where the last speed limit sign you passed was. And if you recant on that in any way, if you even seem slightly uncertain, you just admitted to lying to an officer.

This is why the rule is "never talk to police," not "never talk to police unless you think you're clever."