Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#141

Post by c4mpute » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 9:06 PM UTC

hashier wrote: post #94

atomflunder wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL, but 99% sure that the situation in Germany is that you have to identify yourself (give name, birthday, (address?)), but you /don‘t/ have to carry (or show) your government issued ID at all times.

I actually recently asked a German police person the exact same question if I have to have my ID/passport with me at all times. The answer was “no, you just need to own one or the other”. I always thought as well that there is “Ausweispflicht” (ID carrying obligatory) in Germany.

Ausweispflicht means that you have to own a Reisepass or Personalausweis, not carry any of them.

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#142

Post by mplanchard » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 9:09 PM UTC

boringuser2 wrote: post #132

I have a simple script that I have constructed to deal with the police when/if I ever get questioned. I feel it strikes a good balance between the potential ways of approaching this. While I would like to be helpful to your investigation, in order to ensure my rights are protected, I cannot speak with you without a lawyer present. I appreciate your patience and understanding. In my mind, this balances being respectfu…

As noted in another thread, it is probably worth adding an explicit statement that you’re invoking your right to remain silent.

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#143

Post by tyingq » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 9:09 PM UTC

mplanchard wrote: post #139

paulpauper wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what if you are asked to identify yourself such as for a speeding ticket or a Terry stop. I don't think it's clear cut.

This is clear cut. There are situations where you are legally obligated to interact with the police, like providing your identification at a traffic stop. In any other situation, you should avoid interaction with the police.

> This is clear cut.

Sort of. So you're pulled over for a brake light that's out. Then, they start asking "Where are you coming from?", "Why are you here?", "Do you live near here? (when they already have your address)", "If you're coming from that far, why don't you have luggage?" etc.

I guess you can try to give as terse an answer as possible without coming across as rude? Saying nothing is your right, but they have lots of power to generate consequences if they don't like it.

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#144

Post by modeless » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 9:10 PM UTC

hyperman1 wrote: post #44

hknmtt wrote: post #33

remember, the police's sole purpose is to punish crime, not to prevent it. they don't care who they punish as long as they can add your number to their statistics. they are NOT your friends. that's just childhood brainwashing.

The USA police is a bit of an exception here, being overly militarized, not kept in check by judges and politicians, and historically having a side job of fugitive slave catchers. Around the world, the core job of the police is more: Restore the public peace. They can forgive transgressions in public if you demonstrate further disturbance of peace will cease. They have to maintain a reasonable level of fairness, or t…

It's funny, I always hear about how US police are militarized, but then when I go to Europe I see actual military soldiers carrying assault rifles while doing what seems to me like police duty all over the place in major cities. That's not something I see here.

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#145

Post by asylteltine » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 9:10 PM UTC

dccoolgai wrote: post #91

Recent case in point: Walt Nauta, who got charged along with Trump. Had he just kept his mouth shut, he probably wouldn't have been charged, but they got him dead-to-rights saying stuff they're pretty sure they can prove he was lying about. And this is it "working the way it should". The darker version is a Federal Agent says you told him something you didn't even say because it helps the case he's building. He asks…

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Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#146

Post by green_man_lives » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 9:12 PM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #143

mplanchard wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is clear cut. There are situations where you are legally obligated to interact with the police, like providing your identification at a traffic stop. In any other situation, you should avoid interaction with the police.

> This is clear cut. Sort of. So you're pulled over for a brake light that's out. Then, they start asking "Where are you coming from?", "Why are you here?", "Do you live near here? (when they already have your address)", "If you're coming from that far, why don't you have luggage?" etc. I guess you can try to give as terse an answer as possible without coming across as rude? Saying nothing is your right, but they hav…

The real answer is that there is no actual way to win. You are at their mercy and it is really 100% up to what they choose to do.

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#147

Post by asylteltine » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 9:13 PM UTC

HyperSane wrote: post #128

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Michael Flynn has entered the chat. If you can, get past his ideology and that he was a Trump guy, the actual process of what happened to him and what he was charged with is pretty crazy. He was very stupid for talking to agents without a lawyer. But, they went in and got him to lie about something that wasn’t a crime, and he didn’t actually do. Also on the front page of HN right now: https://news.ycombinator.com/ite…

Michael Flynn is literally a traitor to the US.

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Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#148

Post by mplanchard » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 9:13 PM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #143

mplanchard wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is clear cut. There are situations where you are legally obligated to interact with the police, like providing your identification at a traffic stop. In any other situation, you should avoid interaction with the police.

> This is clear cut. Sort of. So you're pulled over for a brake light that's out. Then, they start asking "Where are you coming from?", "Why are you here?", "Do you live near here? (when they already have your address)", "If you're coming from that far, why don't you have luggage?" etc. I guess you can try to give as terse an answer as possible without coming across as rude? Saying nothing is your right, but they hav…

But it is clear cut! You don’t have to answer any of those questions. You only need to provide your identification and registration.

Remember it’s not a normal social interaction. They use the fact that it feels rude to refuse to answer questions to get you to incriminate yourself. They’re playing a game, and so you need to understand the rules. Not answering is not being rude. Invoke your 5th amendment right and shut up.

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#149

Post by thethimble » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 9:17 PM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #143

mplanchard wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is clear cut. There are situations where you are legally obligated to interact with the police, like providing your identification at a traffic stop. In any other situation, you should avoid interaction with the police.

> This is clear cut. Sort of. So you're pulled over for a brake light that's out. Then, they start asking "Where are you coming from?", "Why are you here?", "Do you live near here? (when they already have your address)", "If you're coming from that far, why don't you have luggage?" etc. I guess you can try to give as terse an answer as possible without coming across as rude? Saying nothing is your right, but they hav…

It seems like there’s a practical approach and a literalist approach here. I never understood the insistence of “don’t talk to the police” in relation to the questions above. If you can give the “right” answers, why wouldn’t you?

I understand how this might be compromising fundamental rights, but at the same time I just want to get home. Is this wrong?

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#150

Post by boringuser2 » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 9:17 PM UTC

mplanchard wrote: post #142

boringuser2 wrote: post #132

I have a simple script that I have constructed to deal with the police when/if I ever get questioned. I feel it strikes a good balance between the potential ways of approaching this. While I would like to be helpful to your investigation, in order to ensure my rights are protected, I cannot speak with you without a lawyer present. I appreciate your patience and understanding. In my mind, this balances being respectfu…

As noted in another thread, it is probably worth adding an explicit statement that you’re invoking your right to remain silent.

In that case, I'd amend it like so.

While I would like to be helpful to your investigation, in order to ensure my rights are protected, I must invoke my right to be silent without a lawyer present. I appreciate your patience and understanding.

I feel like there's some additional potential verbiage modification that can be made to make it more clear to the officer that you're trying to protect your rights and apologize for any inconvenience, but I can't put my finger on it. I think being cordial and respectful will deal with many potential negative side-effects of this approach.

Granted, I'm trying to amolierate the side-effect of this frustrating an officer you're interacting with or triggering their sense that you're actually guilty, causing yourself a greater headache. It's not about what's right, it's about what's effective.