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APIs for content sites must be free

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Re: APIs for content sites must be free

#291

Post by jodrellblank »

kpw94 wrote: post #235
awestroke wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you can't include ads in an API response

You could, but with EU and other legislations you'd have to make it clear it's an ad, so in API-speak, there'd be a "is_sponsored=true". That makes it too easy for API consumers to ignore. (Compared to human eyeballs browsing a webpage) But you could make it part of the ToS: if you're using the API to present posts to users, you MUST show all the posts in the list, including the is_sponsored=true ones.

That's a good point, UK Government page on "Guidance: Hidden ads: Being clear with your audience":

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/social-media-endo...

Re: APIs for content sites must be free

#292

Post by uncletammy »

SoftTalker wrote: post #72

"If a company like Reddit or Twitter derives most of its value from content that users write for free then it must provide APIs for anyone to download and manipulate that content." I disagree that Reddit or Twitter derive value from content. They derive value from eyeballs and showing ads to those eyeballs. If people use APIs as a way to feed their eyeballs without looking at the ads, then Reddit or Twitter gain noth…

> The other option is that people would pay to use Reddit or Twitter. But they would lose 90% of their users if they took that route, because what they do does not provide enough value that a typical user would pay for it.

I see this repeated all the time but I've never seen any evidence cited to support it.

Also, 90% of the users leaving when the site switches to a paid model doesn't necessarily mean the quality of the site or their profitability will go down. I'd pay a pretty hefty monthly fee for most of the social media sites that I've now stopped using as a result of their heavy handed strategies to maximize ad revenue.

Also, since when did we start deciding how much value a thing could potentially provide to an individual? Isn't that what "the free market" is supposed to sort out?

Re: APIs for content sites must be free

#293

Post by arrosenberg »

mardifoufs wrote: post #274
arrosenberg wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's the striking coal miners who are making heat inaccessible to you, NOT the mine owner"

Imagine comparing coal miners to the equivalent of internet janitors who volunteer to work for free as long as they get their share of petty power. Tons of them are basically just protesting since they won't be able to exert said petty power as efficiently as they used to. I can't imagine getting to a point where I'd defend Reddit powermods, even over spez himself. But even in your very shaky analogy, the mods are at…

How are they bougie? They have no ownership over the means of production or financial stake in the success of Reddit. If Spez IPOs Reddit to the moon, do the mods get a taste? At most (from a class perspective), they are the thin layer of floor management that the site relies on the function - those people are still prole labor.

Yes, yes, Reddit is no where near as bad as a coal mine, that's why it's an analogy.

> I can't imagine getting to a point where I'd defend Reddit powermods, even over spez himself.

Why not? Workers vs. Capital, if you can't side with the workers, then you are siding with the moneyed interests, and I can't figure why an average person would do such a thing.

Re: APIs for content sites must be free

#294

Post by mardifoufs »

arrosenberg wrote: post #293
mardifoufs wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine comparing coal miners to the equivalent of internet janitors who volunteer to work for free as long as they get their share of petty power. Tons of them are basically just protesting since they won't be able to exert said petty power as efficiently as they used to. I can't imagine getting to a point where I'd defend Reddit powermods, even over spez himself. But even in your very shaky analogy, the mods are at…

How are they bougie? They have no ownership over the means of production or financial stake in the success of Reddit. If Spez IPOs Reddit to the moon, do the mods get a taste? At most (from a class perspective), they are the thin layer of floor management that the site relies on the function - those people are still prole labor. Yes, yes, Reddit is no where near as bad as a coal mine, that's why it's an analogy. > I…

I'm not siding with the admins, to be clear. I really really dislike how Reddit has been run. Always been a shithole, one way or the other.

But I also think that powermods are a net negative for the website and have turned moderation on Reddit into a joke.

At the end of the day I think users are the "proles" here. And most of them just want to use Reddit for things like tech support or purchasing advice or discussing video games.

That a few mods are able to take ownership of communities that aren't theirs (the community is the users, not the mods imo) and close them down is pretty meh.

I personally would never use Reddit once RiF stops working (and I mean it, I can't even get myself to use the old Reddit interface).

But this is a weird temper tantrum imo that is typical of Reddit; a very tiny minority of third party apps users and even commercial third party app devs shutting down stuff that isn't theirs because they dont have it their way. Again, basically 90% of users just use the new Reddit app and website sadly enough.

Re: APIs for content sites must be free

#295

Post by BizarroLand »

junon wrote: post #280
mattkevan wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand, if API apps not displaying ads is the problem, why Reddit doesn’t include ads in the feed and make displaying them part of the terms for access. They could even have a revenue sharing agreement with the app developers.

This implies that the Reddit administration thinks things through. They have a track record proving they indeed do not.

I wonder how we've ended up in a situation with so many petulant tyrants running amok over previously green fields of humanity?

Elon, Zuck, Bezos, Trump, Gates, Putin and now Reddit, all in the last 5-7 years have been doing things that are user or human hostile while holding some segment of our society hostage in the process.

Elon throwing a 42 billion dollar Twitter hissyfit, Bezos using Amazon's money and connections to lock sellers into their platform and then undercut them with cheap knockoffs, plus underpaying their front line employees as if they don't have enough money already, Trump with turning seemingly normal Republicans into walking cesspools of hate, Gates with the Windows 10/11 privacy and user right shitstorm, and now Reddit redlining their greed and attacking the users and apps that actually makes their site function while not offering any equivalent alternative, Putin tanking the entire country's human reserves and financial strengths to try to vaingloriously steal back a few hundred square miles of land.

All of these things happening in the same bundle of years makes me want to believe in Aliens or Armageddon or the Illuminati or something, because I can't bring myself to believe that the most powerful people in the world would be so selfishly stupid.

Selfish, yes, stupid, yes, but selfishly stupid? When they are surrounded by so many people whose life and lineage and future history depends on the glamorous and glowing successes of these people? And they all ignore all of them and do stupid things with no one checking their ego even the slightest?

How is that possible without an unseen third hand pulling the strings?

I don't know, and I don't think I believe there is something like that, but I suspect there is, and I can't shake that suspicion either.

Re: APIs for content sites must be free

#296

Post by maxos »

I think the most important thing is the copyright of the content. If the content belong to the users, the platform (sites) should not charge for access, or at least they need pay to the users as well. If the content is belong to the platform, they certainly can do anything they want, because when you contribute the content for this platform, you agree with it.

Re: APIs for content sites must be free

#297

Post by junon »

BizarroLand wrote: post #295
junon wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This implies that the Reddit administration thinks things through. They have a track record proving they indeed do not.

I wonder how we've ended up in a situation with so many petulant tyrants running amok over previously green fields of humanity? Elon, Zuck, Bezos, Trump, Gates, Putin and now Reddit, all in the last 5-7 years have been doing things that are user or human hostile while holding some segment of our society hostage in the process. Elon throwing a 42 billion dollar Twitter hissyfit, Bezos using Amazon's money and connecti…

AFAIK Gates has almost nothing to do with Windows these days, but yeah I see your point.

Re: APIs for content sites must be free

#298

Post by incone123 »

rcoveson wrote: post #128
incone123 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know of one long-running message board site which is free of advertising and free for users. A number of users make regular donations and occasionally when funds are low they make an announcement and some other users make a one-off donation. I am very doubtful their model would scale to Reddit's size, and certain they don't have any wish to.

I know it seems like it wouldn't scale merely because we haven't seen it happen, but I don't think it's economically impossible or even economically difficult. I don't think there's any reason to believe that your costs go up more quickly than your income from donations/ads. Instead, I think what happens is you just don't get many users in the first place because all their attention ends up acquired by people willing…

The one I have in mind has been going for decades. I don't think they ever wanted to scale up. The place feels like an independent bar that the owner has no interest in turning into a chain, he just likes running that one bar.

Re: APIs for content sites must be free

#299

Post by SecurityMinded »

Why do APIs for content sites must be free? Are you paying the cost of upkeep for that social media site? You said no ? Then you should shut up. Every social media site is a for-profit business. You, the user, can not dictate how they run their businesses. If you don't like the way things are going, feel free to pack your stuff up (proverbially speaking) and find yourself a new place. As simple as that.

Re: APIs for content sites must be free

#300

Post by incone123 »

pessimizer wrote: post #211
incone123 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know of one long-running message board site which is free of advertising and free for users. A number of users make regular donations and occasionally when funds are low they make an announcement and some other users make a one-off donation. I am very doubtful their model would scale to Reddit's size, and certain they don't have any wish to.

Metafilter? Something Awful?

Neither of those.
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