Earlier quoted context omitted.
Climate change is terrifying, but I also have a hard time taking self titled Doomers totally seriously. It makes sense to consider all of the worst case scenarios for any event, and to prepare for them. But Doomers seem to have an obsession with it, and a need to convince others that the worst will happen. I noticed this a lot in 2020. COVID was (and is) awful, but there was so much shit that Doomers claimed would ha…
Personally, I like to prepare for the worst but hope for the best. I wish more people would take a reasonable middle approach like that. Are we still, as a society, allowed to do things like that? The reality is rarely "as bad as we imagined" OR "nothing is wrong at all".
The concurrence of three climatic events
241–250 of 408 posts
Re: The concurrence of three climatic events
#242Earlier quoted context omitted.
And still others because they've started looking at the pieces of how our global society functions as a system and realized that it's very possible we have pushed our environment beyond it's ability to support us. Leading ultimately to overshoot which leads to collapse.
Maybe, but they never seem to weigh any of the challenges against humanity's staggering ability to adapt and overcome. Doomerism has planet-sized infomercial hands. There is a long and embarassing trail of false apocalypses predicted from extrapolations + assumptions of helplessness, often made by otherwise intelligent and scientifically inclined people. We were all going to starve, but then Haber figured out how to…
I'm not sure who the "they" you're referring to is, but the fast majority of authors/researchers I've read on these topics are quite well aware.
The problem is the vast majority of this "adapt and overcome" has been based on two major things:
- Historically: a geologically remarkable period of climate stability
- More recent: abundant fossil fuels
Malthus was wrong because he failed to predict the Haber process. But currently the Haber process relies heavily on fossil fuels. We didn't produce astoundingly more food per acre then ever before in history because we are incredibly smart, but because we had ready access to hydrocarbons. The same logic follows for nearly all great inventions of recent eras
> Betting against humanity isn't a historically wise move.
I see this comment all the time but it's a very odd one. As far as species go humans are very, very young and survived very little, just about 300,000 years. Additionally, like I said, we've only existed as a species during one of the most stable climates in the history of the planet.
One final point on the "people always think the world is ending!" rhetoric. We've only really started seeing strong apocalyptic thinking in the last several hundred years. Let's say, for argument, that humans were wiped out in the next 100 years. Alien scientists visiting would see people thinking about the end times in the last 1/300,000 of the species' existence to be fairly prescient, even if they were off by several of their own species lifetimes.
On top of that the writing on this topic is not without merit historically. Revelations was written during the Siege of Jerusalem, when things were collapsing for the world of the author. Most medieval apocalyptic literature was written or based on the black death which wiped out between 30-50 percent of Europe. Hardly irrational beliefs that the world is ending based solely on existential anxiety.
There's also an obvious logical fallacy in all this thinking. Most of the time when people look up webMD they think they have cancer, and they don't most of the time. But it doesn't logically follow that they can't have cancer no matter how strong the evidence.
Re: The concurrence of three climatic events
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
You could include the cost of energy in your statement, and then it says nothing.
Solving climate change doesn’t require dramatic long term changes to the cost of energy. Economically it’s mostly a question of sunk costs as our infrastructure is built around fossil fuels. However, infrastructure has a finite lifespan meaning gradually changing things is vastly less expensive, though you do need to actually start changing things. Thus ideas like increasing carbon taxation so economies optimize for…
I have no idea how to fix it. Even when you tell people about it, they will disagree with the concept of a carbon tax plus dividend.
Re: The concurrence of three climatic events
#244Not doubting any of it, but what do we know about the effects of: 1) The war in Ukraine - changes in air travel routes will affect cloud cover. 2) Wild fires in Canada - this is really huge at the moment. 3) That giant blob growing in the Atlantic Ocean.
Re: The concurrence of three climatic events
#245> The IPCC suggests that current sulfur aerosol levels are contributing in the neighborhood of 0.5° C to total global cooling, offsetting warming that would otherwise rapidly occur. > By cleaning up shipping fuels, massive regions of the world’s oceans that were protected from heating by shipping sulfate aerosols are now experiencing rapid warming. This includes the main shipping routes between Asia and the Western U…
This baffles me too but it is the way of things. Smart people refuse to support action unless they're 100% sure no one will dislike it. Meanwhile morons wreck things without pause or consequence. I don't know what it is but I think it will doom our species. You see the same thing from climate change to deficits to wars.
In the 21st century if you have to frame your solution as a fight against something, you're part of the problem not part of the solution. "Fighting" is now a bigger problem than the contested topic. Idiots fight and the bigger the idiot, the bigger the fight. So the contest is over two extremes that have nothing to do with reality and whomever is doing the real discussion gets labelled as the enemy by both camps because they don't belong to the extreme.
Re: The concurrence of three climatic events
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
The issue is water and sand. While it's currently supplementing other ecosystems with nutritions, these by themselves won't magically become greenery. It would definitely have an incredible effect on the climate if you could magically make Africa into a Forest again though. Might even make some parts of Europe uninhabitable with that cooling alone. Not gonna happen though.
> The issue is water and sand. While it's currently supplementing other ecosystems with nutritions, these by themselves won't magically become greenery. photosynthesis efficiency goes up as CO2 increases, and plants need way less water. This leads to greening of the entire planet and reversing desertification.
Re: The concurrence of three climatic events
#247Earlier quoted context omitted.
How is it misleading when they're talking about "exposing more open ocean to incoming solar radiation and heating" specifically? How is it misleading at all when I've literally just quoted data from a really good site?
Presenting a very slightly increasing average antarctic coverage trend over specifically 40 years as a refutation that antarctic polar ice is in retreat is misleading for a couple reasons. First, the last ten years appears to show strongly decreasing coverage trend which shows variability or a change in trend to integrate into any conclusions. Second, over that whole period the minimum coverage has a clear decreasing…
It's a direct refutation of the authors point that it'll continue to decrease and expose more ocean because of compounding effects when it hasn't actually been decreasing. I make no claims that it's going to increase or decrease, I'm not even talking about the future, I'm refuting the author's bad data.
Re: The concurrence of three climatic events
#248How is this on the front page? It's as poorly rooted in science as anti-global warming articles. This level of alarmism is dangerous because thoughts of others imprison us if we’re not thinking for ourselves... why would a young person care about the climate if it's already too late.
So alarmism is good and necessary, we just need to make sure that we also need to take action based on it.
Re: The concurrence of three climatic events
#249* This is why Co2 do not have any effect until it reaches the high troposphere. That takes 20 years. The average climate we have right now is caused by emissions from 2003. *
However: we never had this meteorology scenario before. We cannot predict what will happen this summer. Yes, if you're a public servant or work with them or whatever, prepare for the worst please. But ultimately, we cannot know. we started an experiment that will bring us fast changes, lead us to discover retroaction loops and a lot of different things. Some will help, some wont, we can't know. If it wasn't this dangerous and violent, the uncertainty would be fascinating (it still is, somehow).
Re: The concurrence of three climatic events
#250Earlier quoted context omitted.
How is it misleading when they're talking about "exposing more open ocean to incoming solar radiation and heating" specifically? How is it misleading at all when I've literally just quoted data from a really good site?
Because while the winter maximum used to increase (5y average) in the last 40 years, the summer maximum decreased (5y average) over the same period. > How is it misleading when they're talking about "exposing more open ocean to incoming solar radiation and heating" specifically? So, if you don't know, during winter there is almost no sun in antartica (and even in the areas you can see it 3 hours a day like in the Ker…
March extent has neither decreased, nor increased. It hasn't been decreasing at all. The largest extent in march has occurred in the years 2008, 2013, 2014 and 2015.