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Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

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Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#711

Post by natch »

l33t233372 wrote: post #508
natch wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not op but there are several groups that are independent but essentially aligned on anti-Tesla motivation that have reasons to support campaigns against Tesla: TSLAQ, union supporters, oil producers, legacy auto, to name just a few. There are more. And FUD is well known and easy enough that even individuals can practice it, so I wouldn’t read too much into that.

I’m not convinced FUD is a real thing.

Right, I fear there is doubt and uncertainty, I see what you did there.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#712

Post by justapassenger »

onethought wrote: post #706
justapassenger wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But we already let learner drivers try things out on the road, and their supervisors can’t even take control. Human drivers crash and make mistakes too… where is the uproar for allowing them to drive? Drinking water supply also gets contaminated all the time. So I assume you won’t have any issues if I start pouring my experimental medicine into your municipal water supply, right? How else can I get large scale data…

You are clearly trolling rather than trying to understand different points of view. I know it can be fun to be in the pro or anti Tesla camp and run around responding to anyone pro Tesla with your small set of points. But it didn’t progress anyone’s understanding of things. You don’t learn anything and everyone dismisses your views as zealotry. Why not try to engage with the points? Has Mercedes tested this? What evi…

I’m using sarcasm, sure. But do you think it’s unwarranted when I’m against arguments how only person driving the car could be affected by FSD or that self driving is an AI problem?

I assume you either don’t argue in good faith, or have understanding of the problem area from following Musk’s and his influencer’s tweets.

But I agree with you, it’s not productive. I’ll take my “small set of points” about such an irrelevant things like safety engineering (and no, it’s not a just noun, it’s an engineering discipline) and disengage here.

Just to address one thing tho - YouTubers making videos is and Tesla releasing it to more people to recognize deferred revenue is not testing. And you can see from constant regressions that it doesn’t work as testing.

And before you throw “well, that’s just how AI works”, maybe you’ll make a connection on how self driving isn’t an AI problem. It’s just one of the many many tools used to solve it.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#713

Post by mainframed »

PeterStuer wrote: post #607
rcxdude wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self driving cars are much more likely to be public transport than individually owned. It's also extremely likely that it requires ride-sharing to be viable, which will substantially reduce traffic as well as car ownership (I suspect there may be enough cost pressure that most self-driving vehicles are more like minibuses than cars, which would also help a lot with pollution and congestion, but this may require regul…

"Self driving cars are much more likely to be public transport than individually owened" I've only seen this as a 'just so' greenwash pr story from the automotive industry to offset the projected 300% increase in total road miles driven anually. Please explain why peole would be compelled to ditch their multidude of private cars just because they now come with a 24/7 free driver included?

I can think of two reasons on the top of my head:

1. Renting a car will become much more convenient. I can summon a car instead of having to search one 3 blocks away.

2. Selling a car with an L5-autopilot will have to include a manufacturer warranty/insurance in cases of crashes resulting from a fault of the autopilot. Tesla is already charging 10k (or 15k?) for their shitty self-driving-gimmick without a warranty. I expect L5-autopilots to cost much more and even come at a yearly subscription (which basically offsets the insurance and the required continued development). I don't expect the average person will (be able to) pay that subscription, when the far more reasonable solution is to rent a car.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#714

Post by Consultant32452 »

221qqwe wrote: post #691
Consultant32452 wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter if you use half as much energy per capita if the thing you created results in 50x more people. When I say destroy the cities I mean to include the populations in them. Through policy you make their lives so miserable that they are not replaced generationally. A similar thing was done to rural areas, their people were systematically destroyed through policy. Most of the people on HN seem to be city-d…

> When I say destroy the cities I mean to include the populations in them Pol pot? Is that you? > It seems to be jarring for them to see their own policies of openly promoting the destruction of others lives Says someone who just proposed mass extermination of billions of people?

I explicitly stated we'd create government policies which would result in cratering their population just like we did in rural areas. Are you imagining rural areas in the US were "mass exterminated?"

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#715

Post by Consultant32452 »

satvikpendem wrote: post #686
Consultant32452 wrote: post #654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Okay so you're just advocating for mass murder... I don't think there's a productive conversation here anymore, clearly you have some personal vendetta against cities based on some rural experiences you've had.

Are you imagining rural towns were the victims of mass murder?

People talk about the goal of destroying rural and suburban life through policy all the time. If you found it jarring for someone to openly advocate for the destruction of your way of living, maybe take that into consideration.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#716

Post by andrewchambers »

threeseed wrote: post #380
andrewchambers wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't humans drive with vision only?

We have the world's most advanced supercomputer behind them. And we also can move our eyes around in three dimensions to infer depth.

You are right that one problem is possibly humans don't drive with their heads fixed in place, they move their neck and constantly adjust viewing angles.

w.r.t. the super computer point, AI systems have been able to out perform humans for specialized tasks for a while.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#717

Post by satvikpendem »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #715
satvikpendem wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay so you're just advocating for mass murder... I don't think there's a productive conversation here anymore, clearly you have some personal vendetta against cities based on some rural experiences you've had.

Are you imagining rural towns were the victims of mass murder? People talk about the goal of destroying rural and suburban life through policy all the time. If you found it jarring for someone to openly advocate for the destruction of your way of living, maybe take that into consideration.

What policies "destroy[ed] rural and suburban life?" Do you think people moved away from rural areas into cities because of some policy to destroy them, rather than wanting to find work through jobs located in cities? Without specific examples I really find it difficult to understand your philosophy.

> If you found it jarring for someone to openly promote the destruction of your way of living, maybe take that into consideration.

No because you are advocating for an equivalence which, to my knowledge, does not exist.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#718

Post by TheAlchemist »

onethought wrote: post #707
TheAlchemist wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know the US, but in Europe supervisors definitely can take control - at least for acceleration / breaking. I also think Tesla's approach is the most efficient one, however I do have a problem with their advertising, which is misleading to say the least. I think we kind of all agree it's a beta version, and they 'develop it in the open'. But it's been at least 5 years they say it's pretty much FSD - their firs…

But no one publishes detailed data. Every time I hear anti Tesla/Elon chatter, Tesla is always being held to a higher standard than other companies. FSD naming, nvidia call their Chauffeur, which is way more misleading to me. You have Blue Cruise which means nothing. Audi don’t call theirs anything and just talk about the features which I think is your preference. I don’t believe anyone has bought a Tesla not underst…

Uh, you are joking here right ?

Tesla uses extremely deceiving marketing (and same goes for investor relations) regarding a lot of their products lately - FSD being one of them. It's called Full Self Driving... Is that misleading ? How do you interpret this name ?

Are people being misled ? I don't know. But, last year California did pass a law explicitly aimed at Tesla bullshit.

Again, I do think, from society perspective, it's rational thing to do - to 'test in the open' - especially that there are not that much accidents (although the numbers are much worse that Tesla would like people to believe - when you compare apples to apples, there are more accidents per mile with Tesla FSD than with human drivers). What bothers me is their aggressive and misleading marketing, and the fact that they get away with something other companies do not.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#719

Post by eep_social »

neysofu wrote: post #117
sidibe wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Waymo/Tesla/whatever would do this, they'd be the darlings of the internet. How exactly do you think Waymo works that they wouldn't take responsibility?

Waymo takes responsibility for all accidents and Tesla is able to drive autonomously at 40km/h on highways, but neither does both . Mercedes does. That's –I believe– the point that parent is making. Now, I'd argue that Waymo has probably somewhat solved highways already as they're much simpler than city driving, they're just not offering it to the public yet.

Pure speculation but I bet Waymo doesn’t do highways because they can’t safely reconcile the speed limit with the speed of traffic. In CA and AZ (where Waymo is currently operating) typical highway limits are 55 or 65 mph while traffic speeds in light traffic are easily 70+. Speed differential is dangerous; having a Waymo going 55 while everyone else goes 70+ sounds like a terrible idea but they can’t exactly teach the robot to speed the way a human does either. I’d love to be a fly on the wall during that discussion, ethics, human factors, law, you’d have to tackle the whole shebang.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#720

Post by Consultant32452 »

satvikpendem wrote: post #717
Consultant32452 wrote: post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you imagining rural towns were the victims of mass murder? People talk about the goal of destroying rural and suburban life through policy all the time. If you found it jarring for someone to openly advocate for the destruction of your way of living, maybe take that into consideration.

What policies "destroy[ed] rural and suburban life?" Do you think people moved away from rural areas into cities because of some policy to destroy them, rather than wanting to find work through jobs located in cities? Without specific examples I really find it difficult to understand your philosophy. > If you found it jarring for someone to openly promote the destruction of your way of living, maybe take that into co…

Dismantle public transportation, create trade policy which destroys their jobs, force their children into schools which promote lifestyles they abhor and promote childlessness, subsidize voluntary sterilization and market it to the kids in the schools, etc. These are all corollaries to what was done in rural areas.
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