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Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

theregister.com

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Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#631

Post by lelanthran »

nradov wrote: post #549
afavour wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may not want to deal with the hassle but I wouldn’t assume that applies to everyone. A fully autonomous car (however unrealistic it may be) would be a game changer simply for the economics alone. Not paying full tax, insurance etc for a vehicle while retaining all of the transport possibility would be incredibly tempting to anyone on a budget. Not having to build housing with parking included could do great thing…

The economics won't work outside some small niches. Any sort of car sharing service means a business is managing that service and charging high fees for it, in addition to passing on tax and insurance expenses to customers. The taxes and insurance on my own cars are cheap. Car sharing (short term rental) services already exist and can be a great option for childless young people who live in a dense city and seldom le…

What often gets forgotten is that demand is not equally distributed throughout the day, week, month or year.

Everyone needs to go to school or sports practice at about the same time, everyone wants to go out on Friday nights and not Monday nights, everyone needs a car for monthly shopping at around the end of the month and everyone takes their vacation at around the same time each year due to school vacations.

When demand goes up, not only will it cost more, but there is no guarantee that you'll even get a car on time.

Uber and suchlike work currently because almost everyone uses them rarely, not four times a day.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#632

Post by amelius »

bboygravity wrote: post #345
BoorishBears wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working in the AV space, it's really frustrating how confidently people who have no idea about what's hard and what isn't go off about Tesla right now. Mercedes has soundly beaten the last decade of Tesla efforts by reaching L3. I've personally watched FSD go off the rails and into a crash situation within 60 seconds of being turned on three times this month (I have a friend who loves to try it in San Francisco) Had…

This FUD is insane. You make it sounds like Tesla's with FSD on are crashing all the time. This makes no sense at all, because... they aren't?

> This FUD is insane.

What are you talking about? The real FUD is Tesla not taking responsibility when "Autopilot" crashes into something.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#633

Post by amelius »

natch wrote: post #485
l33t233372 wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FUD is an interesting term. Why do you use it here? Are you implying GP’s message is part of a broader campaign?

Not op but there are several groups that are independent but essentially aligned on anti-Tesla motivation that have reasons to support campaigns against Tesla: TSLAQ, union supporters, oil producers, legacy auto, to name just a few. There are more. And FUD is well known and easy enough that even individuals can practice it, so I wouldn’t read too much into that.

I can understand anti-Tesla motivation considering that Tesla doesn't act in a responsible way: they call their system "Autopilot" when it really isn't that; and they don't take responsibility in case of a crash. Both of these things should imho be illegal but somehow they get away with it.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#634

Post by concordDance »

jamiegreen wrote: post #615
concordDance wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure you really do. I live in the UK and public transport is actually very unreliable. Cancellations and delays are frequent, strikes happen a dozen times a year, many services have an hour between trains... public transport will take you much linger to get anywhere and you'll be able to transport much less. The car has been a blessing when shopping.

This seems more a problem in how this specific public transport is run, than with public transport in general.

I think it's more general, trains have lots of single points of failure while there are normally many roads that can be used to get to a destination.

My experience in Germany is that the trains there are even worse. Every single one was delayed by up to half an hour.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#635

Post by aziaziazi »

fastball wrote: post #394
barbariangrunge wrote: post #49

We’ve actually had nearly self driving vehicles for over a century. They’re called trains. We should invest in some. The navigation problem gets way easier

I seem to remember there being a number of drain derailments lately. Hardly a great safety record compared to either Mercedes' or Tesla's systems.

Let’s see the fatalities per billion passenger km:

Rail: 0.09

Car: 2.52

https://international-railway-safety-council.com/safety-stat... (eu data)

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#636

Post by TheAlchemist »

onethought wrote: post #594
justapassenger wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know you’re not the only user of the road? And there’s tons of videos, with predictable abuse, where people allow cars to do illegal/dangerous things to see “if it’ll figure it out”? If Tesla influencer his me with his car, I didn’t consent to that. Or when erratic behavior (like FSD driving against the traffic, which you have tons of videos of) will cause others to crash - they didn’t consent to that. Tesla h…

But we already let learner drivers try things out on the road, and their supervisors can’t even take control. Human drivers crash and make mistakes too… where is the uproar for allowing them to drive? Where as Tesla only allows fully licensed drivers and until recently only pretty good ones at that. I think you’re just regurgitating the standard anti-Tesla talking points… and avoided the questions on the fact Mercede…

I don't know the US, but in Europe supervisors definitely can take control - at least for acceleration / breaking.

I also think Tesla's approach is the most efficient one, however I do have a problem with their advertising, which is misleading to say the least.

I think we kind of all agree it's a beta version, and they 'develop it in the open'. But it's been at least 5 years they say it's pretty much FSD - their first video where they say 'the driver is there only for legal reasons' was in 2016 !

Same goes for accidents data - they don't publish raw data, that would allow some fair comparisons. Instead they publish bullshit charts which are extremely biased.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#637

Post by fallingknife »

Espressosaurus wrote: post #567
bhauer wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus it's a U-turn situation on ancient version of FSD Beta from two years ago (see the dotted lines in the display, or the YouTube upload date for that matter) that did not support U-turns. And it's not necessarily clear it wasn't going to brake more abruptly if the driver had not intervened.

2 years ago is ancient for a feature that was supposed to be delivered in 2016?

They are trying to build something that has never been built before, and your criticism is that they are late?

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#638

Post by jbverschoor »

concordDance wrote: post #619
cgh wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what the track record for FSD is so far but Autopilot's isn't great and inspires little confidence: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/06/10/tesla-a... 17 fatalities, 736 crashes.

Those are crashes WITH, not crashes BECAUSE. Without knowing the usual amount of no fault crashes given the number of driving miles the number is meaningless

$TSLA speaking?

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#639

Post by oblio »

valval wrote: post #576
satvikpendem wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the inside? I live in NYC and its metro and bus system is amazing, and even then it's still worse than what I experienced in Asia, we're for example in Seoul, I did not have to walk more than five minutes to be able to get on a train or bus and when I got off, I similarly did not have to walk more than five minutes to get to my end destination.

What about someone who doesn’t want to travel with other people in public transport, and also doesn’t want to walk the 10 minutes of the journey?

> and also doesn’t want to walk the 10 minutes of the journey?

If they have a pre-existing medical condition: sure, they can use an alternative method of transportation.

If they don't want to walk for 10 minutes, they're bound to have a medical condition soon-ish.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#640

Post by oblio »

patrick451 wrote: post #563
pavlov wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who builds and maintains the roads for your car?

If the government ceased to exist, the roads would still exist. I doubt the train would continue to run

The roads would continue to exist in a road usable by modern cars for only about 10-15 years. Have you been to any failed state? :-)
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