Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

theregister.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 778 posts

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#251

Post by hristov »

olex wrote: post #225
dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> prepared to take control immediately I don't think that's correct. I've seen "in a certain amount of time" but you make it sound like it's a safety issue, which it's not, that being a key differentiation from a L2 system. When it can't drive it stops driving and you have to drive. If it's not a safety issue you could conceivably bee sleeping, as long as you can wake up in a timely manner. The SAE makes it clear tha…

That "certain amount of time" is variable, but in practice is on the level of 10-15 seconds for the Mercedes system - at least that's what it was when it was first certified in Germany some time ago. It is designed to let you take your hands off the wheel and look at the scenery, but anything more than that is too much distraction for when it requires you to take over. And it will, because it's really not very capabl…

For person like me that takes very light naps when sitting, 10 seconds is plenty to wake up and take control. Also if I am using a tablet doing email or browsing or even playing games, 10 seconds is plenty of time to put the tablet away and grab the wheel.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#253

Post by iancmceachern »

gzer0 wrote: post #43

Friendly reminder that this system is HEAVILY limited, with the following restrictions: - Must be under 40 mph - Only during the daylight and only on certain highways - CANNOT be operated on city/country streets - CANNOT be operated in construction zones - CANNOT be during heavy rain or fog or flood roads And for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjZSZTKYEU4 Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of…

Friendly reminder that there are many humans who choose to not operate their vehicle outside of these conditions as well. Not me, but I know people...

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#254

Post by chroma »

pavlov wrote: post #220
gzer0 wrote: post #43

Friendly reminder that this system is HEAVILY limited, with the following restrictions: - Must be under 40 mph - Only during the daylight and only on certain highways - CANNOT be operated on city/country streets - CANNOT be operated in construction zones - CANNOT be during heavy rain or fog or flood roads And for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjZSZTKYEU4 Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of…

I have a Model 3 in Europe with the so-called FSD, and it’s mostly terrible. I regret paying for it. The car often doesn’t understand even speed limit signs, so it fails at the bare minimum of safety. Recently I visited LA and a friend gave me a drive in their Model 3. The difference in sensor interpretation quality was massive compared to what I see back home. That gave me hope of my aging Model 3 still seeing impro…

The difference in FSD behavior is due to the EU’s laws on autonomous vehicles. The EU mandates maximum lateral acceleration, lane change times, and many other details that make for a worse (and less safe) driving experience.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#255

Post by GuB-42 »

thegrim33 wrote: post #194
hristov wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even considering its heavy limitations, the Mercedes system is miles better than the Tesla, because it is actually useful. You can actually turn on the system and do your email, or take a nap. Yes, the 40 mph limitation on highways seems to make it useless, but many highways get congested to the point where you are not going over 40 mph anyways, and those are the times when it is most frustrating to drive. And regard…

"do your email, or take a nap" <- The definition of an SAE Level 3 system is that you must remain in the seat, prepared to take control immediately when the system requests you to. Taking a nap or otherwise not paying attention is not what such a system supports.

I guess it is not ok to be asleep as even a loud alarm will take time to wake you up, but not paying attention, like when you are doing your email is fine. In fact, that's the entire point of level 3 autonomy.

You are "on call" rather than "at work", so you must be prepared to act when the car rings. If the car doesn't ring, you are free to do whatever you want as long as you can hear the ring and take back control when it happens.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#256

Post by panick21_ »

Vespasian wrote: post #47
ajross wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also worth pointing out that this is an extremely limited system: > On suitable freeway sections and where there is high traffic density, DRIVE PILOT can offer to take over the dynamic driving task, up to speeds of 40 mph. Basically, this will follow the car in front of you in slow freeway traffic. It won't navigate, it won't even change lanes. It won't work (and it's not clear to me how it disengages) when traf…

You forgot the best "feature": It allows you to take your hands off the wheel and your eyes off the road. This is significant as it means MB takes on liability and will give you sufficient time (i think 10s in the European version) to take over. In the world of corporate liability this is huge even if it isn't a technical achievement by itself.

There are lots of level 2 systems where you can take your hands of the wheel. That not the definition of level 3.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#257

Post by masswerk »

DanielVZ wrote: post #172
Spivak wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driverless trains are actually a pretty new thing, being on tracks is not as set/forget as people assume. If you mean "transportation where I'm not driving" then sure but taxis also fit that bill.

Subway trains have been able to be autonomous since at least a decade.

Paris Metro introduced driverless on all their MP 55 train sets in 1967.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#258

Post by chroma »

kelnos wrote: post #168
zaroth wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are not even betting one cent in their car safety. Do you mean strictly in the sense of accepting liability for crashes while AutoPilot is engaged? Because Tesla makes safety a primary selling point of their vehicles. Objectively Tesla invests hugely in the safety of their vehicles, and scores the absolute highest marks for safety in many government tests. Tesla makes an L2 system where the driver must remain…

In minor traffic a week or so ago, I ended up next to a Tesla for a few minutes where the driver had zero hands on the wheel, and her eyes were buried in her phone, with her head angled downward. Whatever system was running seemed to be totally fine with that situation; if that's the most advanced driver attention monitoring system available, we're in a lot of trouble. Tesla caring so much about safety is so obviousl…

I don’t believe you. Teslas have a cabin camera that monitors your gaze and quickly emits warnings if you look at your phone while autopilot is on. If you ignore the warnings, the car puts it emergency flashers on, pulls over, and disables autonomous driving until your next trip. If you do the five times with the FSD beta, you are banned from using FSD.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#259

Post by belter »

elif wrote: post #206
belter wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Took me less than a few minutes, to find in the same channel, FSD failing and the human having to intervene. Here it is at the proper time and for a video uploaded 10 hours ago... - https://youtu.be/KG4yABOlNjk?t=995 And even worst failures...looking at all these I simply do not believe the videos posted are not edited or a selection of a success out of many failed ones. https://youtu.be/KG4yABOlNjk?t=1252 https://yo…

Why don't you find a video of FSD failing on a 40mph highway with no lane changes for an apples to apples comparison... Oh wait that is an unreasonably niche scenario to be worthy of consideration in the context of full autonomy.

Will almost accelerating straight into the guard rail at 30 mph do it? - https://youtu.be/sNBEHumIHJI?t=14

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/05/tesla-driver-claims-model-...

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#260

Post by BonoboIO »

chroma wrote: post #254
pavlov wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Model 3 in Europe with the so-called FSD, and it’s mostly terrible. I regret paying for it. The car often doesn’t understand even speed limit signs, so it fails at the bare minimum of safety. Recently I visited LA and a friend gave me a drive in their Model 3. The difference in sensor interpretation quality was massive compared to what I see back home. That gave me hope of my aging Model 3 still seeing impro…

The difference in FSD behavior is due to the EU’s laws on autonomous vehicles. The EU mandates maximum lateral acceleration, lane change times, and many other details that make for a worse (and less safe) driving experience.

Could you explain why the limits make the experience less safe.

Less lateral acceleration should mean more safety, or I m wrong?

Post reply on HN