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Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

theregister.com

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Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#41

Post by wahnfrieden »

notyourwork wrote: post #37
throwaway_ab wrote: post #31

Many people are saying Tesla FSD is far more advanced, and I've seen videos of A Tesla driving around LA for 2 hours completely autonomously so I agree Tesla FSD is the world leader by far and blows what Mercedes has built out of the water. However Mercedes are taking liability whilst their system is in use which implies Tesla takes no liability whilst their system is in use. I'm surprised Tesla is scared to take leg…

If I were Tesla why would I take responsibility for something no one is forcing me to take responsibility for? Lawmakers are responsible for this charade and its embarrassing to me that a company can be so misleading with marketing and get away with it.

Both state and capital can be bad at the same time y’know

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#42

Post by aedocw »

lvl102 wrote: post #29

It doesn’t take a lot to retro-fit roads with autonomous guardrail markers when we repave. It’s going to take a federal-level effort to accomplish this (which should have been apart of pandemic infrastructure stimulus). I strongly believe this would improve safety for autonomous vehicles by 1000x.

Lane keeping is not the hard part, that’s been solved for a while. It’s dealing with pedestrians and other drivers doing unpredictable things. Slow moving infrastructure projects will not help that at all.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#43

Post by gzer0 »

Friendly reminder that this system is HEAVILY limited, with the following restrictions:

  - Must be under 40 mph
  - Only during the daylight and only on certain highways
  - CANNOT be operated on city/country streets
  - CANNOT be operated in construction zones
  - CANNOT be during heavy rain or fog or flood roads
And for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjZSZTKYEU4

Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of LA for 60 minutes with zero human intervention.

This seems like a marketing gimmick by Mercedes at best; the two technologies aren't even in the same league. Any comparison is laughable. They are outmatched, outclassed, and absolutely outdone. Karpathy (now @ OpenAI) and the Tesla FSD team have really done an incredible job.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#44

Post by ajross »

oblio wrote: post #2

"Slow and steady" better than "move fast and break things"? :-)

Define better? A Tesla will do exactly the same thing[1] and just nag you every few minutes to tug on the steering wheel (those nags are getting rarer every release as the driver monitoring camera improves, FWIW). The Mercedes driver can have their hands doing other things, but still needs their eyes out of the cockpit because the second traffic speeds up to 40mph they need to take over.

In practice, this is "Level 3", but only within an ephemeral subset of driving conditions that aren't going to be consistent enough for you actually exploit that autonomy.

[1] Actually much more, obviously, but it at least does this.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#45

Post by radomir_cernoch »

throwaway_ab wrote: post #31

Many people are saying Tesla FSD is far more advanced, and I've seen videos of A Tesla driving around LA for 2 hours completely autonomously so I agree Tesla FSD is the world leader by far and blows what Mercedes has built out of the water. However Mercedes are taking liability whilst their system is in use which implies Tesla takes no liability whilst their system is in use. I'm surprised Tesla is scared to take leg…

> [...] blows what Mercedes has built out of the water.

Mercedes FSD prototype, 10 years ago: https://youtu.be/G5kJ_8JAp-w

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#46

Post by wahnfrieden »

elif wrote: post #25
justapassenger wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really think there’s no engineering difference between system that’s designed to actively kill you, and others if you don’t pay attention vs system that’s designed not to do it, and company putting their money behind that statement?

You really think Mercedes legal filings guarantee a safer system? It is more important to focus on the technical capabilities of the systems than who can add more asterisks to their crash statistics. You are comparing a mature system with billions of miles of testing to a system which you will struggle to keep engaged for 2 mile intervals.

Tesla FSD is not mature, it’s just old

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#47

Post by Vespasian »

ajross wrote: post #23
belter wrote: post #6

"Conditionally automated driving: Mercedes-Benz DRIVE PILOT further expands U.S. availability to the country’s" - https://media.mercedes-benz.com/article/81a29ac5-4d02-4b58-b... ”Mercedes-Benz DRIVE PILOT is the world's only SAE Level 3 system with internationally valid type approval. It builds on a very robust foundation, setting new industry standards. DRIVE PILOT uses a highly sophisticated vehicle architecture ba…

It's also worth pointing out that this is an extremely limited system: > On suitable freeway sections and where there is high traffic density, DRIVE PILOT can offer to take over the dynamic driving task, up to speeds of 40 mph. Basically, this will follow the car in front of you in slow freeway traffic. It won't navigate, it won't even change lanes. It won't work (and it's not clear to me how it disengages) when traf…

You forgot the best "feature": It allows you to take your hands off the wheel and your eyes off the road.

This is significant as it means MB takes on liability and will give you sufficient time (i think 10s in the European version) to take over.

In the world of corporate liability this is huge even if it isn't a technical achievement by itself.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#48

Post by simondotau »

dmbche wrote: post #40
simondotau wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I doubt so, I think in the guidelines Meta comments are not encouraged as they are not fruitful for conversation.

I appreciate your contribution but I disagree that it’s any more “meta” to respond to the community’s unwritten reactions (votes) than responding to its written reactions (normal replies).

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#50

Post by zaroth »

lvl102 wrote: post #29

It doesn’t take a lot to retro-fit roads with autonomous guardrail markers when we repave. It’s going to take a federal-level effort to accomplish this (which should have been apart of pandemic infrastructure stimulus). I strongly believe this would improve safety for autonomous vehicles by 1000x.

I used to think that V2X road infrastructure was a major necessary component for self driving. I no longer hold that opinion.

The “self-driving” infrastructure would not be magically any better than the “human-driving” infrastructure, and how to handle conflicting data from the infra in terms of sensor fusion is not at all clear.

In short, it creates as many problems as it solves, and doesn’t really solve the problems that it sets out to in the real-world.

Even simpler things like supplemental signaling that could be used in special circumstances like road work and emergency vehicles, if they are not used properly and consistently in all cases, it doesn’t change the fact that the system needs to correctly handle these cases internally.

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