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Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

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Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#221

Post by illumin8 »

shkkmo wrote: post #200
toast0 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude it's totally following the law. You're allowed to enter the intersection for an unprotected left even if it's not clear to turn (possibly not if the end of the intersection you're going to is full of cars). If you are in the intersection, you're allowed to clear when possible regardless of the color of your light. Most intersections with unprotected left turns let you fit at least a whole car, sometimes two in t…

While you are allowed to enter the intersection during a yellow, you are also considered legally to have been warned and would be consider liable if doing so causes an accident. This extra liability would seem like making self driving cars error on the side of stopping to be in the interests of auto makers who would be exposed to that liability.

Incorrect. As long as your front wheels pass the stop line prior to the light turning red, you are legally driving through the intersection and should continue and clear the intersection on the other side (not stop in the middle).

Imagine how crazy the law would be if this were the case: - Light changes from green to yellow 1ms before your front wheels pass the stop line - Other direction traffic runs a red light and hits you from the side - You're now somehow liable because your wheels entered the intersection with zero ability to react quickly enough (no human can react in 1ms and no car can stop that fast) and the other driver that clearly blew a red is not?

That would be pants on head crazy, tbh...

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#222

Post by iknowstuff »

belter wrote: post #114
wilg wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure exactly your point. The Tesla does sometimes require intervention, that's why it's Level 2. But it's still attempting to drive in significantly more complicated situations than this Drive Pilot thing. Does Drive Pilot stop at stoplights or make turns? I don't think so. Regarding deceptive editing, plenty of people post their Teslas doing squirrely things and them intervening. So it's not like a secret th…

Look at is happening at this point, another additional failure mode, not seen in the links I posted before https://youtu.be/WowhH_Xry9s?t=272 See how is confusing the speed limit for cars and trucks, and doing a sudden break. More precisely, at 5:12. So if you have car driving behind you, not expecting the sudden break, this could cause an accident. They are joking with people lives. Ethics matter in Software Enginee…

FYI: Not unique to Tesla, I get plenty of sudden slowdowns when riding Cruise.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#223

Post by samr71 »

adsfgiodsnrio wrote: post #164
wilg wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure exactly your point. The Tesla does sometimes require intervention, that's why it's Level 2. But it's still attempting to drive in significantly more complicated situations than this Drive Pilot thing. Does Drive Pilot stop at stoplights or make turns? I don't think so. Regarding deceptive editing, plenty of people post their Teslas doing squirrely things and them intervening. So it's not like a secret th…

We know Tesla cannot match Mercedes. We don't know whether or not Mercedes can match Tesla. Mercedes isn't reckless enough to let untrained fanboys play with defective software in two-ton vehicles on public roads.

"We know Tesla cannot match Mercedes" - how? You know this?

"reckless" "untrained fanboys" "defective software" - what is this tone? Why is it reckless? Why do the fanboys need training? Why do you think the software is defective? These are significant unjustified claims!

To me, it seems each company has a different strategy for self-driving, which aren't directly comparable. Beta testing with relatively untrained people on public roads seems necessary for either strategy though.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#224

Post by hef19898 »

empiricus wrote: post #209
ryanwaggoner wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Skeptical? Because it’s so popular that it’s very hard to get?

popular would mean at least 100k-1mil. is this mercedes really popular like this?

Tesla's sell at 100k - 1 mil mark up?

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#225

Post by olex »

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #219
thegrim33 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"do your email, or take a nap" <- The definition of an SAE Level 3 system is that you must remain in the seat, prepared to take control immediately when the system requests you to. Taking a nap or otherwise not paying attention is not what such a system supports.

> prepared to take control immediately I don't think that's correct. I've seen "in a certain amount of time" but you make it sound like it's a safety issue, which it's not, that being a key differentiation from a L2 system. When it can't drive it stops driving and you have to drive. If it's not a safety issue you could conceivably bee sleeping, as long as you can wake up in a timely manner. The SAE makes it clear tha…

That "certain amount of time" is variable, but in practice is on the level of 10-15 seconds for the Mercedes system - at least that's what it was when it was first certified in Germany some time ago. It is designed to let you take your hands off the wheel and look at the scenery, but anything more than that is too much distraction for when it requires you to take over. And it will, because it's really not very capable at all - it's basically an advanced traffic jam autopilot that can follow other cars in a straight well marked line, that's it.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#226

Post by GreedClarifies »

prmoustache wrote: post #192
notyourwork wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I were Tesla why would I take responsibility for something no one is forcing me to take responsibility for? Lawmakers are responsible for this charade and its embarrassing to me that a company can be so misleading with marketing and get away with it.

I wouldn't do any business with you for example if that is your default level of ethics.

OK then don't!

That's the magic of the market! People have different values.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#227

Post by omgwtfbyobbq »

pavlov wrote: post #220
gzer0 wrote: post #43

Friendly reminder that this system is HEAVILY limited, with the following restrictions: - Must be under 40 mph - Only during the daylight and only on certain highways - CANNOT be operated on city/country streets - CANNOT be operated in construction zones - CANNOT be during heavy rain or fog or flood roads And for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjZSZTKYEU4 Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of…

I have a Model 3 in Europe with the so-called FSD, and it’s mostly terrible. I regret paying for it. The car often doesn’t understand even speed limit signs, so it fails at the bare minimum of safety. Recently I visited LA and a friend gave me a drive in their Model 3. The difference in sensor interpretation quality was massive compared to what I see back home. That gave me hope of my aging Model 3 still seeing impro…

It will likely take a while because there is a difference. I'm not sure if it's manual effort or just having more data in certain regions.

When I first got into the beta, it wasn't great, but has improved significantly since then.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#229

Post by tgv »

fallingknife wrote: post #177
timeon wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you use camera when you drive?

I use 2

How much processing power do you use to process the input and control the car? You've got more of it in your head than a whatever Tesla puts in their cars. Your cameras are also better.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#230

Post by olliej »

gzer0 wrote: post #43

Friendly reminder that this system is HEAVILY limited, with the following restrictions: - Must be under 40 mph - Only during the daylight and only on certain highways - CANNOT be operated on city/country streets - CANNOT be operated in construction zones - CANNOT be during heavy rain or fog or flood roads And for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjZSZTKYEU4 Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of…

So it can only be used on highways with a 40mph speed limit??? :D
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