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A Swedish startup’s bid to build a green rival to AWS

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131–140 of 228 posts

Re: A Swedish startup’s bid to build a green rival to AWS

#131
post #18

Corporate fluff aside, AWS is on track to run on 100% renewables by 2025[1] so the selling is mostly "European cloud" since the green part will be mostly expected by the time they actually ramp up. Competition is always good though. > Studies by 451 Research have shown that AWS’ infrastructure is 3.6 times more energy efficient than the median of U.S. enterprise data centers surveyed and up to five times more energy…

Well we already have Hetzner and OVH which are European so just being European does not give them a selling point over others.

And Exoscale

Re: A Swedish startup’s bid to build a green rival to AWS

#132
post #7

I think there’s an opportunity for an IkeaCloud or AldiCloud that is just barebones and cheap but still is a proper cloud. Given that Microsoft and google are struggling to match aws it seems we’re still decades away from someone truly being able to deliver the same features, scale, and reliability.

Wouldn't that be Hetzner?

Hetzner lacks a lot of features to count as a proper cloud. Still wishing for managed kubernetes.

Re: A Swedish startup’s bid to build a green rival to AWS

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of european companies would. You’d be surprised how often saas clients told me to _never_ allow client data to get anywhere near a us company. People around europe are very privacy aware.

It's something most Americans don't appreciate. Half of Europe suffered under or from a totalitarian regime not that long ago and set up their respective barriers. Some people give it lip service in America for political points but they don't understand it on a fundamental level - most of them would turn around and complain about why google street view doesn't work in Germany. I say this as someone who has bounced ar…

> Half of Europe suffered under or from a totalitarian regime not that long ago and set up their respective barriers.

Meanwhile Denmark: “It’s time to fill out your yearly tax declaration! Actually, you don’t have to bother! We already pulled your data from EVERYWHERE…”.

Re: A Swedish startup’s bid to build a green rival to AWS

#134
post #5

Would never use a cloud service simply because "its European", it's got to be better and cheaper than AWS.

Seems they're aiming to capture the market of people who want "green" clouds, not "European" clouds. Besides, if you just want better and cheaper AWS, there is so many options already.

> Seems they're aiming to capture the market of people who want "green" clouds, not "European" clouds.

Just make a green colored logo and website?

Re: A Swedish startup’s bid to build a green rival to AWS

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we know they're paying peanuts as salary at this point? There are a lot of companies in Europe who will pay engineers 200k+ EUR and beyond, however admittedly nearly all are US companies or very closely connected to the US capital markets

this blurs further with UK leaving Europe. Berlin doesn't pay much. And what's left then? Paris? Or Stockholm Sweden? Even the CxO's there don't make much more than 200K

Berlin pays the most in EU.

Re: A Swedish startup’s bid to build a green rival to AWS

#136
I think that we're going to see a lot of these initiatives in the coming years. I know a lot of non Europeans, and even a lot of Europeans outside of non-tech Enterprise IT might be sleeping on this a little, but there are some serious powers moving against the non-European Cloud. These powers aren't going to slow down either, they've only been ramping up since 2016 when the EU sort of woke to the threat of a transatlantic relationship that might not be as it had been.

For context I've worked a decade in the public sector of Denmark, and while the GDPR didn't actually change much on the back-end because we already took privacy and data serious, many of the compliance contracts and standards that work with AWS and almost with Azure in GDPR contexts aren't viable in what is now considered national security. Today I work in an investment bank that builds green energy solutions around the globe, you would think that we wouldn't be too affected by these powers in the EU, but the financial sector (and the energy sector) are all considered on the same level as our public services. In the past year, I've had to write up a plan on how we can leave Azure in a couple of days, if the EU deems it necessary to demand that 50% of the European finance sector needs to move away from Azure as a single cloud solution because it's too risky to rely on a single vendor, especially one that is not an EU vendor. Easy enough for my team, we build software, it all runs in containers and it doesn't really care where it runs. Sure we'll have to replace Azure Functions with Express in our node functions, but we've build some automation to make it possible to do in a day to be in compliance. It's much harder to do with our document storage in SharePoint Online and all our federated security build into Azure Active Directory, and, well... Outlook or Windows. I'm not sure anyone has a plan on how to exit Outlook or Windows, but if the EU points at Microsoft and tells us that our number came up, we actually need to tell them how we plan to do it.

The cloud isn't Windows or Outlook though. It'll be hard for us to leave SharePoint Online (you could know this as OneDrive, but in enterprise it's all SharePoint Online), AAD and a lot of the more Operations sided stuff in regards to well running an IT department (I'm sorry, I don't know too much about all those Runbooks), but it also won't be hard for us the same way leaving Outlook or Windows would. But if someone comes a long with viable EU alternatives to Azure, then we're likely going to jump on them. Not because we dislike Azure, but because the bureaucratic measures which force us to maintain these "you need to get out in a day" plans is a lot of work. It also limits us in the services we want to buy, we were looking into the Azure managed Kubernetes product that I forgot the name of, but we decided it wouldn't be a good idea because of how much work it would add for us to plan for an exit that will likely never come. I'm sure that last part has a lot of you rolling eyes. It has us rolling eyes too, but it's the world we live in, and it's not going to change. With the war in the Ukraine, the troubles with China and the risk of America electing another EU-unfriendly president/government, it's likely only going to accelerate, and someone, maybe even this Swedish initiative, are going to be the company or organization, that eventually gets the EU cloud alternative right. I think it'll be more a matter of timing and luck, than being able to actually compete with AWS or Azure in terms of services though. I think it's unrealistic for someone to build an AWS, but it won't be unrealistic to build something that's enough AWS and convenient as legislation pushes harder and harder.

What I'm personally curious about is to see what they plan on doing with smartphones. In Denmark your iPhone is your payment tool, your drivers licence, your social security license, you passport, your national digital ID, your bank and so on, and I'm not sure how the EU plans on having an European smartphone to rival Apple or Google.

Re: A Swedish startup’s bid to build a green rival to AWS

#137
post #64

> When the sun is shining in Spain, then we move the data there, and when the wind is blowing in the Netherlands then we move it there. I'm sure this sounds great for the laymen and politicians, but does it really make sense technically?

No. Nothing beats a truck full of drives for bandwidth, nothing beats fiber for latency, they need both.

> Nothing beats a truck full of drives

You need pigeons!

Re: A Swedish startup’s bid to build a green rival to AWS

#138

I'm interested to hear their business plan, given that there's already established ones like https://elastx.se/en/ , and they're not running terribly well, although they have quite a good product IMO.

It’s in the article. They plan to keep raising money and opening offices while selling “green EU cloud” to clueless businesses and politicians.

Re: A Swedish startup’s bid to build a green rival to AWS

#139

If the concern mentioned in this article of "Americans can view sensitive data on European citizens," they should just go the route China did - it hosts its own version of AWS that's pretty walled off, from what I know.

I feel like that’s exactly what will happen, and this company would be well placed to benefit.

Basically some European company licenses the “AWS” stack and follows instructions to build and operate the data center.

Works in China, and even more so with the various government regions.

Europe is basically building the Great Firewall slowly and through committee, they’ll end up in the same spot.

Re: A Swedish startup’s bid to build a green rival to AWS

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yeah, that's what evroc is aiming to be.

China has literally AWS, though, not just something similar. All the same services, just with a CCP official looking over your shoulder and a Chinese company operating it.

Not literally though, it’s run by some company that is not Amazon.
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