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Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

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Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#151

Post by veidr »

unobatbayar wrote: post #140
veidr wrote: post #101

I use the Quest Pro right now, because my interest in spatial computing (I like Apple's new term so trying to use it, haha) is greater than my misgivings about Meta (even though those are significant). I will buy the Apple thing, too. There are a lot of interesting differences between them (obviously, the biggest one being the price, and deriving from that) but the one I find interesting is Apple's decision not to ha…

Meta Quest 3 really looks like it's made by Xiaomi, matches their entire theme and price range. What made you buy it?

Well, I am just really interested in the idea of taking a spatial computer headset device around with me, and doing work (writing software, so think VS Code/JetBrains/Xcode) in a large spatial environment instead of a laptop with a single small screen.

I did know that the Quest Pro would not live up to that task (and it doesn't), but I wanted to see how close you could get today for $1500 (now, $1000).

I also do boxing and similar fitness games almost every day, so I knew it would at least serve me well for that, despite being pretty expensive. (An yeah, for that, it's pretty great.)

The new Apple gizmo looks way better for programming and work like that, though, so I'm excited about it. After many years, we appear to be getting close to something that is actually pleasant to use. (Even the Quest Pro technically can be used for this, but the experience is far from pleasant.)

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#152

Post by m3kw9 »

gnicholas wrote: post #88
cloudking wrote: post #60

Interesting take, I thought he would be pretty excited a major player is entering the space he's been working on since they acquired Oculus. Apple would have done research to validate this product and market before entering it. Edit: he did acknowledge this a bit on Lex Fridman podcast https://youtu.be/C_fpCVtGR6I

A friend of mine works at Meta and was telling me about how much of the AVP's functionality exists on the recent Meta devices, for a fraction of the cost. My reply: great! If that's true, that'll be a boon for Meta (as customers learn this) and for customers (who will save tons of money by getting Meta devices).

They always count functions but never how well it all works together, it saying I tried it but you can’t just count check off boxes and say they are similar

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#153

Post by zmmmmm »

galkk wrote: post #124
browningstreet wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple filed 5000 patents. Meta can’t even figure out where the field is now.

I hardly believe that with all headstart that oculus/mega had they don’t have enough patents to ensure mutually assured destruction

It's amazing how seamlessly people have switched from relentlessly mocking Meta's investment in VR to pretending it never happened

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#154

Post by wahnfrieden »

Laremere wrote: post #135
Foxhuls wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would strongly recommend looking at the results people are achieving with Apple’s game porting toolkit just days after it was released. With the hardware that the vision pro is supposed to have, I seriously think it will be the best gaming headset on the market if the final product ends up living up to what was announced.

I haven't seen anything about controllers that work with the Vision Pro. Lacking those is a nonstarter for a lot of VR gaming.

iPadOS and iOS support PlayStation etc controllers so I would expect it here soon too

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#155

Post by Panini_Jones »

galkk wrote: post #124
browningstreet wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple filed 5000 patents. Meta can’t even figure out where the field is now.

I hardly believe that with all headstart that oculus/mega had they don’t have enough patents to ensure mutually assured destruction

There's always the defense that he engineer wasn't aware of the patent.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#156

Post by wahnfrieden »

veidr wrote: post #141
tptacek wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To a first approximation, nobody uses the Apple Pencil as a primary input device on an Apple device.

True, although that might be where my analogy breaks down. Controllers are today the primary input device for pretty much all VR headsets out there. So, maybe the better analogy would be the Blackberry's keyboard. And we know who won that one. I think Apple is probably right to just double down on bare hands and voice as the input mechanism for spatial computing. I'm just also saying that controllers do have some adv…

Controllers will not make the jump to lightweight/outdoor AR

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#158

Post by veidr »

throw74775 wrote: post #149
Laremere wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't seen anything about controllers that work with the Vision Pro. Lacking those is a nonstarter for a lot of VR gaming.

It’s compatible with any Bluetooth controller, but I see no reason it would be a nonstarter. Remember it has full hand tracking. If you want to hold something e.g. a lightsaber or whatever, there is no reason not to. An inert plastic prop should work just fine.

I'm not a huge gamer, aside from fitness games like Thrill of the Fight, but I've tried a bunch of VR games just to see.

And there is just no way that a lightsaber game could be good without haptic feedback, in a world where haptic feedback exists. And I think many other kinds of game.

YouTube guy MKBHD even called out the lack of haptics in his initial impressions video, not even for a game: the butterfly flew over to him in the Apple demo, and he held out his finger, and when the butterfly landed on it... nothing. And that was kind of jarring, he said. (And it would be.)

Haptic feedback is a big deal.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#159

Post by zmmmmm »

smoldesu wrote: post #103
juve1996 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly doubt Meta can match Apple's tech now and in the future. The hard part is the hardware. Apple is way ahead here.

The hard part is the low end - and Meta has 20 million devices sold there. If the hardware is an obstacle to reaching market fit, I'm pretty confident Meta could get there. It's mostly a matter of scaling up what they already have.

The sticking point is the silicon which they don't control. After watching Android flail for 10 years unable to match Apple's ARM processors in phones, I'm unfortunately not super optimistic that Meta can influence Qualcomm to suddenly make the necessary leap in performance needed. Of course, if they concede having an external power brick perhaps they can just stack multiple XR2's in there and get into the range ... but I'll be sad if they go that way. Carrying a power brick has to be a temporary detour, it can't be the long term of this.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#160

Post by albert_e »

Laremere wrote: post #135
Foxhuls wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would strongly recommend looking at the results people are achieving with Apple’s game porting toolkit just days after it was released. With the hardware that the vision pro is supposed to have, I seriously think it will be the best gaming headset on the market if the final product ends up living up to what was announced.

I haven't seen anything about controllers that work with the Vision Pro. Lacking those is a nonstarter for a lot of VR gaming.

MKBHD reveiw of the AVP says Apple WILL NOT make controllers for the AVP.

That struck me as odd. (Obviously anyone can connect a bluetooth controller and give users some extra control, assuming this device supports open bluetooth for audio etc.)

It is one thing for Apple to claim that their latest gadget does not NEED any controllers for basic navigation and selection. Because they invested so much in perfecting a gensture based system. So far so good.

It is far more presumptious if they say they will NOT allow controllers.

When claiming credit for launching a new space called "spatial computing" -- it is very short-sighted / arrogant to state that a one click finger gesture is all you will ever need for all your comupting needs.

There are games obviously where multiple simultaneous actions need to be triggered. There are 3D modelling applications -- actually a great use case for a AR/VR HMD. And I am sure there are tons of other applications that can benefit from innovative and ergonomic approaches to interactions. Why would Apple go out of their way to say there will be no controllers.

Apple should ideally have an open SDK to allow third party wireless controllers. Knowing apple though ... they will probably sell $499 bluetooth earbuds and call them Apple Ear Pro or something.

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