The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open • Hacker News Board

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#331

Post by wkat4242 » Wed, Jun 07, 2023, 10:09 AM UTC

Paradigma11 wrote: post #323

wkat4242 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. Sevastopol is super important to them. I hope they won't do anything drastic. It's the only warm water port Russia has on the black sea. And thus full year access to the mediterranean. I doubt they will give it up. Perhaps the rest of Crimea, I could imagine. But not the base.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novorossiysk would like to have a word with you. "Novorossiysk is the biggest Russian seaport. In 2019 cargo turnover amounted to 142,5m tons[26] In 2021 cargo turnover amounted to 105,2m tons[27] Novorossiysk is connected by rail and highways to the main industrial and population centres of Russia, Transcaucasia, and Central Asia. "

I thought this was not a warm water port but indeed it is.

Their main port in the black sea is still Sevastopol though. It would cost a lot to transfer all that over to Novorossiysk and it would also cause them to lose a lot of face. I doubt they will let that happen.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#332

Post by wkat4242 » Wed, Jun 07, 2023, 10:10 AM UTC

_kbh_ wrote: post #325

theironhammer wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Precisely. Ukraine taking back Crimea is pure fantasy. Russia would launch nukes rather than give it up.

> Precisely. Ukraine taking back Crimea is pure fantasy. Russia would launch nukes rather than give it up. The idea that Russia will launch a single nuke is fantasy, they haven’t even tested one in over 80 years.

Launch a strategic nuke, no. Nobody expects that. But we're talking about tactical ones. The smaller ones that can be dropped from a plane or installed in a short range missile.

Even if one or two fail, they will find one that works. It would set a terrible precedent for the rest of the world, where any kind of nuke deployment right now is "not done".

We don't want to go back to the 60s where nuclear-tipped torpedoes were regularly carried and in fact one almost was launched during the cuba crisis.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#333

Post by _kbh_ » Wed, Jun 07, 2023, 10:54 AM UTC

wkat4242 wrote: post #332

_kbh_ wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Precisely. Ukraine taking back Crimea is pure fantasy. Russia would launch nukes rather than give it up. The idea that Russia will launch a single nuke is fantasy, they haven’t even tested one in over 80 years.

Launch a strategic nuke, no. Nobody expects that. But we're talking about tactical ones. The smaller ones that can be dropped from a plane or installed in a short range missile. Even if one or two fail, they will find one that works. It would set a terrible precedent for the rest of the world, where any kind of nuke deployment right now is "not done". We don't want to go back to the 60s where nuclear-tipped torpedoes…

> Launch a strategic nuke, no. Nobody expects that. But we're talking about tactical ones. The smaller ones that can be dropped from a plane or installed in a short range missile.

Even with a tactical nuke we are talking about the end of the Russian federation, if anything would invite a physical kinetic response it would be a nuke, tactical or not.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#334

Post by justsomehnguy » Wed, Jun 07, 2023, 2:43 PM UTC

dralley wrote: post #313

justsomehnguy wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Arestovych was kicked out of the administration for making exaggerated statements for attention, he's not a great source. Also: > Compulsion; forcible constraint; the act of controlling by force or arms. As those people like to say, that person could just go to the Ukraine and get medical care there. Bonus points: wouldn't get shot up as a collaborator.

> that person could just go to the Ukraine One cannot "just" cross the front lines of an active warzone. This should be blindingly fucking obvious. Especially not with all of the bridges being blown. Especially not when you're elderly, probably ill or injured (they are looking for medical attention, remember) and in all likelihood do not have a vehicle in the first place. And it's just "Ukraine", not "the Ukraine". T…

* yawn * You are boring.

> One cannot "just" cross the front lines of an active warzone

What exact 'front lines' and 'an active warzone' were for 8 years for Crimea? What forbade an Ukrainian patriot to find the time in 8 years to get from the occupied by evil Russkies Crimea to his homeland and don't be in the need 'to be coerced to receive the passport to receive a medical help'?

> And it's just "Ukraine", not "the Ukraine".

And it's 'Netherlands', not 'the Netherlands', right, because you are the one consistent fellow? And it's also makes sense because English is the first language of the Ukraine, right?

> The kind of person who does not see how it could be coercive to force elderly, sick people to leave the place they live

But somehow you are perfectly fine if those people are coerced by the right guys to leave their places - because somehow people living all their life in Crimea, Sevastopol, Donetsk, Lugansk aren't a proper humans.

You are boring and specifically take only the points where you can argue.

In the video in question it's specifically said what would happen when Ukrainians would take Crimea. Of course you ignored that to make your point look good in your own eyes.

So, let's try again:

Arestovich would shoot up everyone deemed too Russian, everyone else would be guilt by default and somehow only some elderly people who couldn't make it to the motherland in eight fucking years to receive the so needed medical attention (but somehow found the time to get a Russian passport) would be spared - and you are totally, absolutely fine with all these points.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#335

Post by Chief180A » Wed, Jun 07, 2023, 2:51 PM UTC

It look like the most anticipated Ukrainian offensive had begun, but was blunted by the Russians After this occurred, it stands to reason that the Ukrainian government would like a reason for not losing any more men and material so why not blow up the dam and damage most of the defensive positions the Russians had prepared and give an excuse for not going on with the offensive. And of course ask for more money and weapons so who did this benefit and you don’t have to be a mental giant to figure out that this was more damaging to Russia and the Crimea than to Ukraine.

And remember, we were all told that the Russia blew up its own pipe line in the North Sea as well, confirmed by US officials both military and state department, of course they would not lie to us again right?

Look at the lay of the land and facts, the Crimean region relies on that water for agriculture and industrial/domestic water supplies much more than the Ukraine does.

Think for yourselves and don’t be led around by politically motivated people.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#336

Post by Chief180A » Wed, Jun 07, 2023, 2:56 PM UTC

Think for yourselves look at facts Are there pictures of an explosion? Seems like there should be with all the satellites and drones in the area. The Crimea region depends much more on the water from that dam than the Ukraine does for agriculture and domestic water sources. Who lied to us about the Russian Pipe line being blown up saying Putin did it and now we know that the Ukraine did it of course with the knowledge and probable help of the US. Ukraine offensive had started and had been stopped.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#337

Post by drumttocs8 » Wed, Jun 07, 2023, 8:48 PM UTC

2-718-281-828 wrote: post #229

dsab wrote: post #7

Its yet another russian war crime during Ukraine invasion

how? if it's a war then isn't it legitimate to destroy energy sources?

All is not fair in love and war. See: Geneva Conventions.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#338

Post by wolverine876 » Wed, Jun 07, 2023, 10:04 PM UTC

wtallis wrote: post #67

wolverine876 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not sure what other credible source you may want. I'm a little confused: You did not provide any source. You're not obligated to provide any, but I don't understand your comment.

FYI, it stops looking like innocent questioning when you put more time and effort into repeating the question in multiple places than into looking up the answer yourself. If you think someone is wrong, then be forthright about that, and consider whether addressing the lack of adequate sourcing is still necessary after you've made a real contribution to the conversation. In a topic like this one, people can reasonably…

People love making things up, now you're doing it about my intentions. It seems like evidence is out the window for everything.

The evidence is only that I expressed interest in a source. The rest is your fabrication. Have a good day!

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#339

Post by wolverine876 » Wed, Jun 07, 2023, 10:06 PM UTC

stargazer-3 wrote: post #64

wolverine876 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to read an expert source on that, if you have one.

A dam on the same river was blown up by retreating Soviet troops in WW2: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/02/second-world-w...

Interesting, thanks, though only one incident. Do you know any sources on Russian military strategy?

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#340

Post by wolverine876 » Wed, Jun 07, 2023, 10:09 PM UTC

tivert wrote: post #279

wtallis wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI, it stops looking like innocent questioning when you put more time and effort into repeating the question in multiple places than into looking up the answer yourself. If you think someone is wrong, then be forthright about that, and consider whether addressing the lack of adequate sourcing is still necessary after you've made a real contribution to the conversation. In a topic like this one, people can reasonably…

The GGP is neither a credible source (it's an unsupported statement by an internet rando) nor speculation that withstands much scrutiny (IIRC, circa 2014, Ukraine had blocked the channel that supplies water to Crimea, and that didn't cause the Russians to abandon it then, and I don't see why now would be any different). There's a lot of wishful thinking and propaganda swirling around this conflict, and strong claims…

I'd say any claim needs evidence (with some extreme exceptions), and in fact it's only the evidence that's worth reading, not the claim.

Rando claims have zero value by themselves - there is an infinite supply that say anything and everything. That's why science, law, etc. require evidence.