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The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

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Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#311

Post by justsomehnguy »

michtzik wrote: post #308
justsomehnguy wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, yes, there were no videos of what the brave liberators did with people they identified as collaborators. >The Ukrainian government explicitly recommended taking the papers if coerced to do so How can anyone be coerced to get a passport ?

> How can anyone be coerced to get a passport ? The video you linked to mentions an example: an elderly person getting a Russian passport in order to get medical care (after nine years).

>> Arestovych was kicked out of the administration for making exaggerated statements for attention, he's not a great source.

Also:

> Compulsion; forcible constraint; the act of controlling by force or arms.

As those people like to say, that person could just go to the Ukraine and get medical care there. Bonus points: wouldn't get shot up as a collaborator.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#312

Post by spaceheater »

vlovich123 wrote: post #124
dralley wrote: post #2

Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/nova-kakhovka-dam-khers... Simulation of worst-case scenarios: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tRYWbVD5AE The Russian State News agency claims that the dam "collapsed due to damage" https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/166592960325106892... Ukraine says it was destroyed by the Russian military. Google maps: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kakhovka+Hydroelectric+Po…

“Collapsed due to damage“. Looks pretty clearly like an explosion. Russian state news agency. The fine folks that bring news reports like “local nerd found hitting himself by school bully”

US 'cannot say conclusively' what happened in dam breach - Kirby

Yeah right. lol. And that is a clear signal that Ukraine was behind it. But as always the warmongers will try 4d chess to convince you Russia did it, like it blew nord stream, attacked crimea bridge, and shot missiles into Poland.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#313

Post by dralley »

justsomehnguy wrote: post #311
michtzik wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How can anyone be coerced to get a passport ? The video you linked to mentions an example: an elderly person getting a Russian passport in order to get medical care (after nine years).

>> Arestovych was kicked out of the administration for making exaggerated statements for attention, he's not a great source. Also: > Compulsion; forcible constraint; the act of controlling by force or arms. As those people like to say, that person could just go to the Ukraine and get medical care there. Bonus points: wouldn't get shot up as a collaborator.

> that person could just go to the Ukraine

One cannot "just" cross the front lines of an active warzone. This should be blindingly fucking obvious. Especially not with all of the bridges being blown. Especially not when you're elderly, probably ill or injured (they are looking for medical attention, remember) and in all likelihood do not have a vehicle in the first place.

And it's just "Ukraine", not "the Ukraine".

Thank you for showing your colors so clearly. The kind of person who does not see how it could be coercive to force elderly, sick people to leave the place they live (and probably livestock, because Ukraine) and travel hundreds of miles, or to accept Russian citizenship - to get basic medical attention is not worth arguing with.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#314

Post by polotics »

theironhammer wrote: post #306
wkat4242 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. Sevastopol is super important to them. I hope they won't do anything drastic. It's the only warm water port Russia has on the black sea. And thus full year access to the mediterranean. I doubt they will give it up. Perhaps the rest of Crimea, I could imagine. But not the base.

Precisely. Ukraine taking back Crimea is pure fantasy. Russia would launch nukes rather than give it up.

Russia won't launch nukes come what may, because Putin's now very very big brother Xi doesn't want a nukes-equipped Taiwan, and holiday resorts for Moscovites are less important than TSMC chips.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#315

Post by matusp »

pmontra wrote: post #284
matusp wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In short term yeah, it will probably be too muddy. But it will dry over time and in the long term this unlocked a completely new axis of attack for Ukrainians. Similarly in the downstream regions. The water will go away eventually and it will be much easier for Ukrainians to attack in the future, when the Russians will not have the capability to flood the downstream regions with this dam.

The Dnipro is still a large river to cross and it's not going away. I looked at it in Google Maps and it's at least 500 m wide before and after the reservoir. Btw, Google added the flooding marks to the map.

I am actually not sure how wide it will end up. Dnipro is actually reservoirs all the way up to Kyiv. It will be Ukrainians in Dniper HES that will control the flow from now on.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#316

Post by ianburrell »

wkat4242 wrote: post #262
polotics wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once the Kerch bridge is cut and the southern offensive gets through to the Azov sea, they won't have any other choice but to scamper from Crimea.

I don't know. Sevastopol is super important to them. I hope they won't do anything drastic. It's the only warm water port Russia has on the black sea. And thus full year access to the mediterranean. I doubt they will give it up. Perhaps the rest of Crimea, I could imagine. But not the base.

Sevastopol being only Black Sea port is not true. Russia has Novorossiysk where they constructed naval base before 2014. The remains of the Black Sea fleet have moved there because it is safer than Crimea.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#317

Post by tim333 »

spaceheater wrote: post #312
vlovich123 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Collapsed due to damage“. Looks pretty clearly like an explosion. Russian state news agency. The fine folks that bring news reports like “local nerd found hitting himself by school bully”

US 'cannot say conclusively' what happened in dam breach - Kirby Yeah right. lol. And that is a clear signal that Ukraine was behind it. But as always the warmongers will try 4d chess to convince you Russia did it, like it blew nord stream, attacked crimea bridge, and shot missiles into Poland.

It could just be the US doesn't have special info, like the rest of us. The fact that it was in a Russian controlled area, rigged with Russian explosives and that the damage would mostly be inflicted on Ukraine suggest maybe it was Russia, no 4d chess required.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#318

Post by lost_tourist »

KptMarchewa wrote: post #173
nicce wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who benefits the most from the collapse? Does it disturb Ukraine or Russian military the most? Who will achieve military goals because of this? Does it help Ukraine in information warfare? (does it increase West participation to war)

Not really benefits anyone's offensive or defensive plans. Maybe political but that's a stretch. No one comes out with prepared narrative too, which makes it look like an accident.

However it didn't blow itself up, someone did it.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#319

Post by lost_tourist »

nicce wrote: post #252
Yizahi wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously ruzzia benefits, by blocking western front in preparation of the Ukrainian advance.

It blocks or slows only couple weeks at max. Not really a big gain. The river has 6 dams. Ukraine can control the upstream flow. It is estimated than in three days, the highest point in downstream is reached and then it will get lower. In the war which has lasted more than year, the benefit is meaningless. On the other hand, the flow flushes all the Russian defenses on the other side. And the source of drinkable wate…

It's a pretty big psychological warfare advantage for the Russian though to impress their population and keep them in the dark about what is really going on in Ukraine. It seems a bit coincidental considering the major Ukrainian offensive will likely start with the next couple of weeks.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#320

Post by megous »

caoilte wrote: post #290
jemmyw wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are we losing? Ukraine was supposed to fall in days. For them, even holding the line isn't losing, and they've pushed the line back. I talked about politics that I don't like here it is: the west is not losing, it's winning substantially. Even if Ukraine doesn't win back territory, the west sees Russia bash itself against a wall losing men and equipment, and showing its hand operationally. And the amount spent is…

> And the amount spent is a pittance to western governments I don't consider well north of $100billion and climbing to be a pittance. > We could, and imo we should, give Ukraine to means to win. And yet we haven't. The Ukrainians are still rationing artillery fire, appear to have lost most of their air defence cover and long ago lost air cover. If we were serious about winning the US government would have switched to…

> The only plausible route feels like a massive neutral DMZ

How is that even remotely plausible? It would be absolutely unprecedented in scale, Ukraine would have to cede protection of massive amounts of its territory in exchange for Russia doing what? Stop trying to unsuccessfully advance frontlines and be saved from counteroffensive?

It makes no sense to me.

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