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US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

theguardian.com

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Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#941

Post by hanspeter »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #435
tedivm wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Knowing that life may be common is a lot different than knowing that intelligence is.

Yes, but the universe is so mind mindbogglingly vast. So many galaxies and so many stars! It just doesn't seem right that what happened here didn't happen somewhere else.

Intelligent life might happen on every 10,000th planet or it might only happen in every 10,000th universe.

As long as we know of only one occurrence of intelligent life we have no clue of the probability. And human intuition on what's right doesn't help us here.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#942

Post by baja_blast »

mclightning wrote: post #908
baja_blast wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep radio waves degradation is due to the inverse square law. The strength of the signal is determined by the inverse of the distance squared. So the drop off is pretty extreme.

I used to be greatly tempted by the fermi paradox, but upon learning about limitations we have observing the skies.... I believe the entire fermi paradox talk, is just steeming from the fact that we think too highly of ourselves as a civilisation and the efford we put into observing the skies. Most people, including myself until recently, don't realise that most of our astrophysics/space science is very limited to ou…

> Correct me if I am wrong but we are only able to do science around the other stars in the Milky way (e.g. exoplanet observations)

Oh yeah and on top of that the way we detect planets around stars creates a extreme bias on dwarf stars since a positive detection needs a few transits before confirmation of a planet can be made. And since dwarf planets transit within days/weeks sun like stars take around a year so it would take 3 years of observation to find an Earth around a sun-like star. But I have heard science communicators imply that what we have detected so far is representative of what is out there which is absurd.

If FTL is impossible(which I doubt since it's only "impossible" in some capacity in Special Relativity. But Special Relativity does not describe our universe, General Relativity does and even that has limits),then not seeing Aliens is not a paradox at all considering radio waves only go out a few light years, and the distances are just too great. And if there are any Alien probes in our solar system sitting on IO or some moon we'd have no idea since we have only done flybys and never truly scanned the surfaces.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#943

Post by belter »

93po wrote: post #937
belter wrote: post #933

Earlier quoted context omitted.

References? "Nonverbal communication and deception" - https://www.paulekman.com/blog/nonverbal-communication-and-d...

https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/02610159... Body language across a lot of samples and people can show patterns between this body language and lying. A single instance of someone displaying body language in a given context says virtually nothing. "Tells" vary wildly between people for a million different reasons as this study shows, and unless you study a specific individual very carefully in a sci…

You need to tell that to my wife...

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#944

Post by trashtester »

transducers wrote: post #216
zoogeny wrote: post #166

I saw an interview with this guy just yesterday. He didn't see anything himself. His claim is that some people, and he believes them to be trustworthy, confided in him and showed him some documents. So, at best his testimony is hearsay. All of this stuff reeks of some kind of psyop. My belief is that for some reason, the US government used psychology tests to identify a select few people who naturally "want to believ…

I share the opinion that it is psyop and it is a very long running project. At one level it is a nice psyop platform - like Star Trek for the psychological warfare professionals. Over the years they have influenced American thought about the government to a great degree. X-Files. For example, most Americans, and this “whistleblower” here, now accept that elements in the US government are operating entirely outside of…

Unless there exists some really simple way to do FTL travel that we're soon to discover, any civilization advanced enough to visit Earth should be able to wipe us out as quickly as humanity can burn an anthill.

So, assuming members of such a civilization is actually here, they're likely to be friendly, and any psyop similar to what you describe would be staged for our benefit.

Using X-files or Star Trek as representations of what the future is likely to be like, is just as obviously improbable as using The Lord of The Rings to understand Medieval Europe.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#945

Post by nameless912 »

gfodor wrote: post #151
jacknews wrote: post #91

Sounds like Grusch is upstanding, but I suspect he's been trolled by the rest of them. You can just imagine; "hey Eagle, the UFO guy's coming to ask about that UAP report, you know, the one where the IR tracker locked-on to a speck of dust. Let's mention the (nudge, hehe) black-ops alien testing site we saw when we went to file the report"

You don't troll someone to the point of letting them go testify under oath to the IG.

While I think I believe this whistleblower, the CIA is _definitely_ willing to troll someone to the point of letting them go testify under oath to the IG. I'm pretty sure they _have_. Not to mention all the LSD they dosed people with.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#946

Post by necovek »

Ireallyapart wrote: post #730
necovek wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...and they aren't famous enough for you to trust them. That's not how we gain extraordinary trust (remember, Kyrie Irving is pretty darn famous). We expect all statements to be independently verified and attested by a bunch of experts, with eg. journalists verifying they are indeed experts (that's journalists' expertise). The more people who've you learned to trust in that chain of verifiers, the higher your trust…

>That's not how we gain extraordinary trust (remember, Kyrie Irving is pretty darn famous). Nope. It is how you gain extraordinary trust. It really depends on what they are famous for. There are many famous people or scholars who you respect and trust due to their fame. You trust them, because others trust them. Fame can also cause distrust too. But it does cause trust as well. >When it comes to extraordinary claims…

I am not sure why do you think there is only one way to increase trust in a claim made by unknown people?

I don't trust "famous" people. I trust that it's unlikely for a large group of "famous" (eg experts in relevant fields, which is a more specific interpretatiin of "famous"), unrelated people to not trust each other, and only once they reach a common ground, would my trust of their extraordinary claim rise.

Yes, I wouldn't trust Einstein proclaiming speed of light is finite, but when corroborated with independent claims of experiments from Michelson proving likewise, and others from 30 years ago, I would.

Basically, if it's too few people, I'd question how did others, unrelated people not see it: science mostly progresses these days when the body of knowledge is such that simply the next thing is in front of us, and multiple people simultaneously "discover" it. As it's many people making similar claims, I'd start considering it seriously.

This is how science works, and I am happy to follow that with media reports as well. It's not at all backwards IMO.

Sure, if I was working on a hypothesis, I would certainly venture into less trusty sources, but I would need to be ready to accept for my hypothesis to be disproven too.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#947

Post by colordrops »

nprateem wrote: post #757
colordrops wrote: post #752

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For real there should be a name for this sort of categorical error in thinking.

Yeah like open minded or something.

Sure they aren't open minded, but I mean thinking that our current state of knowledge defines the limits of what is possible, which is more specific than just closed-minded. It's crazy how often people make this mistake.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#948

Post by scotty79 »

ElMocambo_x4 wrote: post #907
scotty79 wrote: post #821

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US Military released rather intriguing, yet unexplained videos of objects outmaneuvering our top jets. Those videos show no such thing. All the stuff about outmanoeuvring is a fantastic narration. Videos show only dots which can be (and were) explained as a bird from above, plane from behind and glitchy camera mount with a bit of optical artifacts on top. Which is infinitely more plausible than aliens from anot…

The USAF and the Pentagon themselves released those videos, labeling those recording as "unexplainable". Let me point them, and the fighter jet pilots, to "Scotty79-from-the-internet", so that they can all understand that what they all saw or recorded were in fact birds. :p

> "unexplainable"

Just unexplained, which means noone there bothered to explain them seriously enough to create an official document. Which was correct (lack of) action to take because those observations were irrelevant for anyone except the most keen ufologists.

> Let me point them, and the fighter jet pilots

Jet pilots are good at flying jets. It's kinda hard so they don't have much capacity left to be good at anything else. Like explaining visual glitches and unusual outputs of highly complicated machinery.

> to "Scotty79-from-the-internet"

That weren't my explanations. I was merely citing the ones given by a guy with doctorate in physics and expeirience with IR cameras. There are others. All infinitely more plausible than "it's aliens".

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#949

Post by robdar »

hanspeter wrote: post #940
BobbyJo wrote: post #848

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But claiming it definitely isn't is just as absurd as claiming it definitely is. Maybe even more so.

We still have only one data point for life and one data point for intelligence. It's absurd to claim intelligent life doesn't exist, as we know it does on Earth. And it's absurd to claim any level of probability for other intelligent life until we have one more data point.

> We still have only one data point for life and one data point for intelligence.

Don't we have many points for both? There are ~8.7 million species on the planet. What we only have one data point for is a planet that contains life and intelligence.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#950

Post by hanspeter »

robdar wrote: post #949
hanspeter wrote: post #940

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We still have only one data point for life and one data point for intelligence. It's absurd to claim intelligent life doesn't exist, as we know it does on Earth. And it's absurd to claim any level of probability for other intelligent life until we have one more data point.

> We still have only one data point for life and one data point for intelligence. Don't we have many points for both? There are ~8.7 million species on the planet. What we only have one data point for is a planet that contains life and intelligence.

I should have been more clear. We only have one data point for the emergence of intelligent life.
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