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Notes on Vision Pro

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Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#361

Post by johnchristopher »

jb1991 wrote: post #315

I use quite a few Apple products every day of the last 10 years, and I’m very impressed with certainly all the technology and reviews and explanations of how this device works and what the user experience will be. However, this is the first Apple device that really makes me pause. All of the marketing material, the WWDC videos, all of it feels very uncomfortable to see all these people isolating themselves in a room…

i believe this is one of the reasons consumer VR hasn't taken off and likely won't: even if 5 people are in the same room it disconnects most people too much to be enjoyable on a regular basis. People would rather intuitively gravitate toward watching a netflix show or whatever than being bodily isolated and cut off for too long.

I haven't yet read/seen much about Apple's take on it so maybe they closed a gap I am not aware of.

> And these 3D spacial moment recordings, imagine children growing up in a house where when something nice happens, the parent rushes to put on goggles and stare at them through them, their little virtual eyes displayed on the outside, it’s frankly creepy to me.

Well, I have always found that creepy, even with old analog camera from back then (but I always found adults staring at children when something nice happens a bit creepy (or cringe ?) so that's me).

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#362

Post by naravara »

ukuina wrote: post #336
tsimionescu wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shooting is typically an action you take, not just a matter of the direction you're pointing in - so this fits the model well: the game gets information about motion to swing the camera, and gets the exact position when you press a button, but doesn't get to know exactly what you're looking at if you're not pressing the button. The question will be how easy it is to reconstruct that information from the last exact po…

This doesn't hold true for FPS games. You absolutely need to tell the game where you are aiming so it can draw crosshairs, even for on-rails shooters favored by VR.

I expect fps will still require a controller/kbm rather than relying on the eye tracking/gesture input. For one thing, I don’t know how else you would move and perform actions at the same time.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#363

Post by boo-ga-ga »

dddanmar wrote: post #360
hparadiz wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if you've ever seen Serial Experiments Lain. In it the protagonist slowly descends into an underground of hackers while finding herself isolated in a room with all sorts of mid 90s aesthetic crt monitors, servers, tubes and wires. And that is more what my current office looks like as opposed to someone hanging out on a couch wearing this headset. If the user interface is to be believed you can in theory…

Thank you for bringing Serial Experiments Lain back into my recent memory.

Literally laughed out loud to this comment:D

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#364

Post by naravara »

cubefox wrote: post #102
kalleboo wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VR gaming is a flop. Lots of people bought headsets, played with them for a day and now they're all gathering dust. Apple is right to ignore it.

People generally agree that VR games are miles ahead of ordinary games in terms of immersion. The adoption problem seems to be that there is no affordable VR console with a lot of big exclusive games. The Meta Quest comes close to a decent price point, but there aren't many publishers making elaborate games for it. A chicken/egg situation with regards to adoption and game investment. Basically, a Game Boy or Switch f…

How much do gamers actually value immersion though? Seems to me the satisfaction of solving puzzles or executing strategy and the sort are the real drivers of satisfaction with games. Immersion is nice, but unless the interaction mode provides something novel to enable better ways to play it’s really just a novelty.

In some cases they use it well, like Beat Saber. But how much is that worth to people?

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#365

Post by ZiiS »

divbzero wrote: post #337
dwayne_dibley wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree, however when was the last time you walked into a room where at least one person wasn't solely focused on their phone. The 3D photo thing is super weird, they could release a stand alone camera in future, BUT, I think this is a v1 product, imagine where it'll be in 5 years time, or an SE model which isn't wrap around. I already wear glasses so having AR glasses is no big leap.

Strapping on goggles to record a family moment feels super weird to me too. I wonder if future iPhones will have the sensors required to take 3D photos.

I expect current iPhones can do a good enough job. Lidar + just waving it around + AI make this mainly a software problem.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#366

Post by johnchristopher »

JohnBooty wrote: post #76
gnicholas wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would have been much less exciting to see Tom Cruise sitting on a couch, hands in his lap, gently flicking his fingers to scroll through crime scene footage. IIRC he talked about how tired his arms got during filming. EDIT: found it — he didn't talk about it, but it was reported that he had to frequently rest his arms: https://medium.com/@LeapMotion/taking-motion-control-ergonom...

Oh, 100%. The interfaces in Minority Report were spectacular in terms of cinematic movie appeal. Artistically it was a great choice, and they certainly weren't intending to inspire a bunch of wrong-thinking UI choices in the real world.

I distinctly remember they said they had hired scientists to discuss what the future would look like and I always thought "yeah, right, so in the future we got those holo interfaces and computers ultra connected but people in the same office still copy files from one computer to the other using some kind of plug able storage".

But now that I am also in the future I still use USB drive to move files at the office because. Guess they were on something after all :].

    The fallacies  

        The network is reliable;
        Latency is zero;
        Bandwidth is infinite;
        The network is secure;
        Topology doesn't change;
        There is one administrator;
        Transport cost is zero;
        The network is homogeneous.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#367

Post by moonchrome »

jb1991 wrote: post #315

I use quite a few Apple products every day of the last 10 years, and I’m very impressed with certainly all the technology and reviews and explanations of how this device works and what the user experience will be. However, this is the first Apple device that really makes me pause. All of the marketing material, the WWDC videos, all of it feels very uncomfortable to see all these people isolating themselves in a room…

This is labeled a pro device. Their home use marketing really misses the mark IMO.

The fact that I can mute out the rest of the room while working is a plus not a minus.

I'm skeptical this will be there on a technical level to justify the price but the concept of working in VR is objectively an improvement, especially once you factor in the portability of the system.

For entertainment - it's probably going to be the same as computer games - everyone had one for work and it was expensive and awkward - but work drove adoption and people started playing games on it.

I think this is the main failure of VR so far, it's trying to force people into this alien experience just for entertainment. I have plenty of ways to play games/watch video, I probably wouldn't use it if I had it for free let alone paying large sum of money.

If I'm using VR day to day for work - then I might occasionally game on it - this is the road to widespread adoption.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#368

Post by wildpeaks »

BulgarianIdiot wrote: post #333
dwayne_dibley wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree, however when was the last time you walked into a room where at least one person wasn't solely focused on their phone. The 3D photo thing is super weird, they could release a stand alone camera in future, BUT, I think this is a v1 product, imagine where it'll be in 5 years time, or an SE model which isn't wrap around. I already wear glasses so having AR glasses is no big leap.

> The 3D photo thing is super weird, they could release a stand alone camera in future We can call it "iPhone"

They showed the iPhone camera can be used for taking Facetime calls on tv using Apple TV boxes, so it would make sense for them to add a way to use an iPhone as additional camera.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#369

Post by itsnotlupus »

hparadiz wrote: post #349
jb1991 wrote: post #315

I use quite a few Apple products every day of the last 10 years, and I’m very impressed with certainly all the technology and reviews and explanations of how this device works and what the user experience will be. However, this is the first Apple device that really makes me pause. All of the marketing material, the WWDC videos, all of it feels very uncomfortable to see all these people isolating themselves in a room…

I don't know if you've ever seen Serial Experiments Lain. In it the protagonist slowly descends into an underground of hackers while finding herself isolated in a room with all sorts of mid 90s aesthetic crt monitors, servers, tubes and wires. And that is more what my current office looks like as opposed to someone hanging out on a couch wearing this headset. If the user interface is to be believed you can in theory…

Notably that show features a gargoyle who seems very proud to be walking the streets with all their cool hardware.

With the Vision Pro, Apple is going to let us become the prettiest gargoyle at the ball.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#370

Post by alkonaut »

lukevp wrote: post #133

From years of observing first-hand how hard it is to develop software, I’m shocked that Apple continually makes products that fit their aesthetic (eg. The crown and headband evoking the Apple Watch) and have coherent and mostly-baked software on launch like this. Is there a book about how they’re able to operate at scale and deliver such consistent things? Do they just have an insanely good product team? How do they…

If I were to speculate I'd say it's because they don't ship things until they are finished. I'm sure a lot of the polished launches we have seen have been late by 6, 12 or 24 months. If the market isn't ready, the product doesn't ship. If the technology isn't ready (say, a high enough resolution VR display) to create a wow product then the product doesn't ship. I think it takes a great organization to not "accidentally" ship bad things. You need to prevent bonuses, egos, sunk costs, and self-deception from shipping something bad prematurely.
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