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Notes on Vision Pro

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Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#291

Post by rvz »

kalleboo wrote: post #88
cubefox wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Quest Pro has actual VR games and proper VR controllers though. I doubt that such games are possible or probable with eye pointing and finger clicking alone. Apple also didn't include any VR games into their presentation.

VR gaming is a flop. Lots of people bought headsets, played with them for a day and now they're all gathering dust. Apple is right to ignore it.

> VR gaming is a flop. Lots of people bought headsets, played with them for a day and now they're all gathering dust.

A flop indeed. /s From [0]

"Standalone VR headset Quest 2 from Meta (formerly Oculus under Facebook) has outsold Microsoft's Xbox Series X/S consoles, according to the latest information from the International Data Corporation (IDC)."

> Apple is right to ignore it.

Incorrect.

Apple didn't ignore it because they cannot ignore it. Apple is targeting both gaming and for work just like how the Meta Quest Pro has done so.

[0] https://www.thevirtualreport.biz/data-and-research/65297/que...

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#292

Post by Xenoamorphous »

mk_stjames wrote: post #107
BoppreH wrote: post #51

I echo the awe at the hardware and the disappointment at the paradigm. I wish the keynote had three extra demos: - Something whimsical to inspire developers. Give me files represented as physical blocks that I can pile, or a task manager that shows processes as plants around me. Close apps by scrunching their screen like paper. A globe with my geotagged pictures. - A game, any game. Beat Saber was the killer app for…

> Give me files represented as physical blocks that I can pile Man, people still want a file manager like fsn on IRIX systems, 30 years later...

This is UNIX! I know this!

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#293

Post by pmontra »

MR4D wrote: post #164
kalleboo wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VR gaming is a flop. Lots of people bought headsets, played with them for a day and now they're all gathering dust. Apple is right to ignore it.

I agree that so far that is where we've been, but imagine a Sim City or Civilization game on the Vision Pro. THAT would be a ton of fun. I'm sure Sid Meier could make something interesting on it. Frankly, I would love it if Apple would throw money at him to make one of his games on it.

One problem to solve is that probably we don't want people to stand for hours and having to walk through the city or the world. They might not have the space at home to do it. They could sit on an office chair and rotate themselves 360°. If they spend 3k on the visor they can spend $100 on a chair. However you don't even have to do that kind of exercise on a screen.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#294

Post by pharmakom »

discordance wrote: post #199
charlie0 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The arm waving is some form of exercise, which is a plus for me.

"Gorilla arm" is a term engineers coined about 30 years ago to describe what happens when people try to use these interfaces for an extended period of time. It's the touchscreen equivalent of carpal-tunnel syndrome. According to the New Hacker's Dictionary, "the arm begins to feel sore, cramped and oversized -- the operator looks like a gorilla while using the touchscreen and feels like one afterwards." https://www.w…

I guess non of the engineers lifted weights. that community has a bunch of terms for this

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#295

Post by hnaccount_rng »

makeitdouble wrote: post #203
lukevp wrote: post #133

From years of observing first-hand how hard it is to develop software, I’m shocked that Apple continually makes products that fit their aesthetic (eg. The crown and headband evoking the Apple Watch) and have coherent and mostly-baked software on launch like this. Is there a book about how they’re able to operate at scale and deliver such consistent things? Do they just have an insanely good product team? How do they…

You could say the same about Dyson or Oxo or Bodum. Having a single esthetic and coherent product line is a choice. On the face of it, it sounds like a company would want coherency, but in practice it means leaving a lot of money on the table for every single of your products. Any consistent design decisions means anyone who's not pleased by it has no option in your lineup to go to. That's of course a gamble Apple is…

Your point is valid, but that ... diversity? ... comes at a _very_ steep price. Not only for the manufacturer, also for the consumer! With Apple I _know_ a couple of things about any future purchase, without ever having used, held or felt the particular product. Namely: 1) Build quality will be significantly higher than competitors, 2) It will hurt my feelings to look at the bill after checkout, 3) It will work as advertised (or slightly better).

Yes there also will be quirks I'll be unhappy with, which I _could_ (given enough time and experimentations) find a better solution for. But fundamentally I'll be getting a solid product, that works well enough. It is _that_ promise, which fundamentally allows Apple to do an online store and do a mostly directly-to-customer retail operation.

If you increase diversity, you make this "buy any product and you'll be fine" thing so much more complicated, loosing more sales than the niches even contain. I'd guess almost all people just want it to work :TM:, at least that's me, and that's me deciding the phone of my mum

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#296

Post by mcintyre1994 »

russellbeattie wrote: post #15

> But it does put an enormous amount of pressure on the eye tracking. As far as I can tell so far, the role of precise 2D control has been shifted to the eyes. I've been researching eye tracking for my own project for the past year. I have a Tobii eye tracker which is probably the best eye tracking device for consumers currently (or the only one really). It's much more accurate than trying to repurpose a webcam. The…

> If you were to simply connect your mouse pointer to your gaze, for example, any sort of hover effect on a web page would be activated simply by glancing at it.

I’m curious about how they deal with apparently not doing this, in terms of how do you know what button is going to be clicked if you click? The product page under privacy says that websites and apps don’t get eye tracking data, only knowing when you click, so I guess that means a website won’t display its active/hover effects on a button you’re looking at. Because if it could then it could just link that to analytics in JavaScript and defeat that privacy protection. So if you don’t have that, how do I actually know what’s going to happen when I click?

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#297

Post by ulfw »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #290
dvt wrote: post #50

This is a bit of a rant, but I bought a Quest Pro last year, and I feel it was a total waste of money. It's actually embarrassing how much of an unpolished piece of garbage it feels like. Sure, it's fun as a PCVR headset, but as a productivity tool or as a multimedia consuming device, or as a social tool, it completely misses the mark. And I'd say that 80% of its failure can be attributed to bad software. It's buggy,…

It’s kind of funny that meta stock didn’t drop on the vision pro announcement. What does that say about the market’s assessment of meta’s vr/ar prospects?

The market is hedging it's bets.

If Vision Pro will succeed Meta could be seen as the cheap-ass alternative. 3500USD vs 500USD is like Ferrari vs. Kia. Not everyone can afford the former.

If Vision Pro doesn't succeed, the market will likely move on from VR completely, leaving Apple and Meta in the same place. Money spent, product introduced, tried, didn't work. Move on.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#298

Post by pharmakom »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #290
dvt wrote: post #50

This is a bit of a rant, but I bought a Quest Pro last year, and I feel it was a total waste of money. It's actually embarrassing how much of an unpolished piece of garbage it feels like. Sure, it's fun as a PCVR headset, but as a productivity tool or as a multimedia consuming device, or as a social tool, it completely misses the mark. And I'd say that 80% of its failure can be attributed to bad software. It's buggy,…

It’s kind of funny that meta stock didn’t drop on the vision pro announcement. What does that say about the market’s assessment of meta’s vr/ar prospects?

maybe the odds of meta dropping the whole vr thing have increased? then they can stop lighting piles of money on fire because zuck read snow crash as a teenager? OTOH, maybe apple will show meta how a headset can actually be done and they can mimic their way to product market fit?

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#299

Post by morsch »

rvz wrote: post #291
kalleboo wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VR gaming is a flop. Lots of people bought headsets, played with them for a day and now they're all gathering dust. Apple is right to ignore it.

> VR gaming is a flop. Lots of people bought headsets, played with them for a day and now they're all gathering dust. A flop indeed. /s From [0] "Standalone VR headset Quest 2 from Meta (formerly Oculus under Facebook) has outsold Microsoft's Xbox Series X/S consoles, according to the latest information from the International Data Corporation (IDC)." > Apple is right to ignore it. Incorrect. Apple didn't ignore it be…

Maybe the new Xboxes are a flop, also (at around 20 million sold by 2023)? The Xbox 360 has sold 85 million. PS5 has sold 35+ million.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#300

Post by croes »

JohnBooty wrote: post #76
gnicholas wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would have been much less exciting to see Tom Cruise sitting on a couch, hands in his lap, gently flicking his fingers to scroll through crime scene footage. IIRC he talked about how tired his arms got during filming. EDIT: found it — he didn't talk about it, but it was reported that he had to frequently rest his arms: https://medium.com/@LeapMotion/taking-motion-control-ergonom...

Oh, 100%. The interfaces in Minority Report were spectacular in terms of cinematic movie appeal. Artistically it was a great choice, and they certainly weren't intending to inspire a bunch of wrong-thinking UI choices in the real world.

Same with all the scientists in movies writing on glass boards.
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