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Notes on Vision Pro

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Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#191
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Console controls are not a suitable alternative to proper VR controllers 2) What makes you think the PS5 controller was connected to the headset, and not the headset being used as a TV showing the output of a PS5?

Re: 2, they showed it being used to play Apple Arcade games and since they already have support for that it’s unlikely that they have deep philosophical objections. Re: 1, it’ll be interesting to see how well the camera system works in practice. All of the reviews are quite positive about precise movements so it might be that they’re throwing hardware at this problem but I’d also be surprised if they were not very ca…

Oh, I’ll have to see if and how Provenance can run on it.

PSX games with a PS5 controller on a theatre screen? My inner 8 years old is going to loose his mind.

But that doesn’t solve the issue for the mainstream.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#192
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t need to even leave the ecosystem- Siri in 2023 is much worse than Siri in 2018 or so.

The regression in autocorrect is also nuts. It seems to aggressively modify grammar to the point of regularly changing the meaning of what I’m writing. It’s like a CS undergrad project where they went too hard on Markov chains.

It’s absolutely horrible- it will go back and modify correct words for whatever forsaken chain it decided it wants. I hate it.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#193
post #50

This is a bit of a rant, but I bought a Quest Pro last year, and I feel it was a total waste of money. It's actually embarrassing how much of an unpolished piece of garbage it feels like. Sure, it's fun as a PCVR headset, but as a productivity tool or as a multimedia consuming device, or as a social tool, it completely misses the mark. And I'd say that 80% of its failure can be attributed to bad software. It's buggy,…

I got one last year also, but was disappointed by software selection. My children loved the hardware but wanted more software. At their behest, I tried to write my own software for it, but went in circles trying to figure out what SDK to use.

I wish someone on the SDK team there could observe me as I tried to search for this information and failed because it would be super-informative on how to (and how not to) succeed on creating a wider community of apps...by making SDKs easily available.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#194

Sorry for hijacking this thread for a question about personal curiosity but does anyone know of an affordable way of measuring pupil distance? I want to measure my pupil distance while browsing social media. The reasoning is my reading in "Thinking Fast and Slow" that pupils dilate when we see something we find interesting / something we like / when we are thinking and vice-versa. I want to put it to the test and it…

A high res webcam and OpenCV?

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are immersive, 100%. But also nauseating and forehead heating.

Have you tried a Quest? I found the SW on that fixed all neaseau I experienced on earlier headsets and I think the Quest 2 was even better but I don’t recall at this point.

I had plenty of nausea with the Quest 2.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#196
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fitness and gaming wasn't demoed much yesterday, but are going to be insane on the Vision Pro - so I guess it was just too obvious to demo. Or is it? Also Meta could catch up if it was just software. But how big of a deal is the M2+R1? Anyway the metaverse was already being retracted, else this Vision Pro could have hammered Meta. Clearly Occulus has to evolve to match VisionPro. Controller has to be optional. It has…

Sweating profusely in an electronics device... I've ruined ski goggles just sweating in them and they're meant for that. Also just stumbling with these on or slipping and there you go cracked $3500 screen.

Worse, if you run into a wall at high speed the screen probably ends up in your eyes.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eye tracking is almost certainly more accurate and faster. To the point where we make it an entire game to see who can who can move the mouse to what their eyes are already looking at fastest, in the form of shooter games.

Interesting point — if you no longer need to use a joystick to aim your weapon, how will controllers evolve? Will the second joystick be used for some other function, or will it be replaced by a different type of input method? It would be funny if controllers evolved to be more like the single-joystick models that we had decades ago, with the joystick on the left and rows of buttons on the right. History doesn't repe…

[deleted]

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#198
post #50

This is a bit of a rant, but I bought a Quest Pro last year, and I feel it was a total waste of money. It's actually embarrassing how much of an unpolished piece of garbage it feels like. Sure, it's fun as a PCVR headset, but as a productivity tool or as a multimedia consuming device, or as a social tool, it completely misses the mark. And I'd say that 80% of its failure can be attributed to bad software. It's buggy,…

I found it notable Apple has this to say about eye tracking under the "Learn more about privacy and security" section: >Eye input is not shared with Apple, third-party apps, or websites. Only your final selections are transmitted when you tap your fingers together. Along with this small video: https://www.apple.com/105/media/us/apple-vision-pro/2023/7e2... Which is great and important for me to see, but I'm unsure ho…

You can get a surprising amount of information about cognitive processes from eye tracking. I worked on the industrial version of HP Reverb G2 which included a PPG sensor and Tobii eye tracking. Was really an amazing product which suffered from having to use third party platforms like Windows Mixed Reality and OpenXR which didn’t have first class support for what was possible.

One notable takeaway is that eye tracking of saccades is loosely correlated with cognitive load. In fact, “cognitive load” was a product that would be licensed to developers to use in their apps so that difficulty levels could be dynamically adjusted to keep users in a sweet spot for learning.

Especially when combined with a PPG sensor which can in theory detect if a man gets aroused (HP never investigated developing a model for that, but some comments from friends who were DoD-aligned contractors expressed alternating concern or interest in it, because they knew from their own career and independent research what applications might be possible with those technologies)

…it could be used to infer things which someone might prefer to keep private (I.e. which categories of things they have an emotional response to).

Apple definitely is aware of this and is heading off potential issues by not only not providing that data to third party app developers but also even to Apple itself. Apple does have a strong pre-existing framework for dealing with sensitive health data, so they could have decided to capture similar data and treat it the same way they deal with ECG data. HP did not have a HIPAA compatible framework so they threw away 99% of the PPG data and distilled it down to just “heart rate” which was the only data source available to app developers from the PPG sensor.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#199

But it does put an enormous amount of pressure on the eye tracking. As far as I can tell so far, the role of precise 2D control has been shifted to the eyes. I've got one good eye and one bad eye. The bad eye is legally blind, has an off-center iris and is kind of lazy w.r.t. tracking. I'm extremely curious to know how Vision Pro deals with this. One certainly hopes there's some kind of "single eye" mode; certainly s…

The arm waving is some form of exercise, which is a plus for me.

"Gorilla arm" is a term engineers coined about 30 years ago to describe what happens when people try to use these interfaces for an extended period of time. It's the touchscreen equivalent of carpal-tunnel syndrome. According to the New Hacker's Dictionary, "the arm begins to feel sore, cramped and oversized -- the operator looks like a gorilla while using the touchscreen and feels like one afterwards."

https://www.wired.com/2010/10/gorilla-arm-multitouch/

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#200
Vision Pro opens opportunities for a new web interface of the type that Gary Flake and team were building with Silverlight and Pivot at Live Labs.

Gary has a great TED talk (Mar 2010) on this radical but intuitive spatial sorting interface. Foveation and hand movements are perfect user links.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT_x9s67yWA

Combined with a Vision Pro—OMG.

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