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Notes on Vision Pro

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Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#101

Post by sojournerc »

throw74775 wrote: post #48
zmmmmm wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not as such no. Part of (my) definition of a platform is that when you buy it you are fully paying for the cost and contribution the platform provider made when you buy it. If there's a residual financial (or other) obligation after that then you don't have a platform, you have a partnership. I know there's other definitions of platform but that's the one that's important to me.

I don't see why that should be. Obviously you have a right to do whatever deals you like and not buy this product, but it seems to me that one reason Apple is investing so much in this is because they expect to recoup a huge reward over time, not just from device sales. I guess you can always buy an android based headset that allows sideloading but presumably it won't have the same level of investment.

You're proving their point. That they expect revenue (huge reward) after the initial purchase is, by definition, rent-seeking.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#102

Post by cubefox »

kalleboo wrote: post #88
cubefox wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Quest Pro has actual VR games and proper VR controllers though. I doubt that such games are possible or probable with eye pointing and finger clicking alone. Apple also didn't include any VR games into their presentation.

VR gaming is a flop. Lots of people bought headsets, played with them for a day and now they're all gathering dust. Apple is right to ignore it.

People generally agree that VR games are miles ahead of ordinary games in terms of immersion. The adoption problem seems to be that there is no affordable VR console with a lot of big exclusive games. The Meta Quest comes close to a decent price point, but there aren't many publishers making elaborate games for it. A chicken/egg situation with regards to adoption and game investment.

Basically, a Game Boy or Switch for VR.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#103

Post by Arn_Thor »

TX81Z wrote: post #73
dilap wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if i understood the wwdc keynote correctly, they completely redid the text-to-speech, so this should actually be good now (maybe)

Yeah, but they’re so far behind even if they 10x Siri they’ve got nothing on OpenAI.

Then again.. Siri is all on device. I don’t want to send my voice anywhere

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#104

Post by lostmsu »

cubefox wrote: post #102
kalleboo wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VR gaming is a flop. Lots of people bought headsets, played with them for a day and now they're all gathering dust. Apple is right to ignore it.

People generally agree that VR games are miles ahead of ordinary games in terms of immersion. The adoption problem seems to be that there is no affordable VR console with a lot of big exclusive games. The Meta Quest comes close to a decent price point, but there aren't many publishers making elaborate games for it. A chicken/egg situation with regards to adoption and game investment. Basically, a Game Boy or Switch f…

They are immersive, 100%. But also nauseating and forehead heating.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#105

Post by bombcar »

TX81Z wrote: post #75
macintux wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has to be evident to Apple that Siri needs dramatic changes. They keep building hardware that needs robust voice support.

I would not be so sure, mainly because of ecosystem lock. I sincerely doubt a double-digit percentage of Apple employees have touched and android phone or used OpenAI APIs. Big problem with ecosystems is you don’t know what you’re missing.

You don’t need to even leave the ecosystem- Siri in 2023 is much worse than Siri in 2018 or so.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#106

Post by russellbeattie »

Karunamon wrote: post #84
russellbeattie wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one has used it for an extended period of time. You don't get a headache right away, but after a while, you feel it.

Entirely serious question: is this something that can be trained? That is, after a long enough time of use and strengthening of the appropriate muscles and neural pathways, the headaches and such go away?

I think for some people, it won't be a problem. Much the same way some people have no issues spending hours using VR goggles without nausea. There are many people with accessibility issues who manage it, for example, and geeks who just like the idea of living in the future. In my experience, your eyes just get tired, even after you get used to it.

I think unless Apple has really added some sort of magic, it will be an issue for most people to use Vision Pro for anything but passive activities, or with a physical trackpad.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#107

Post by mk_stjames »

BoppreH wrote: post #51

I echo the awe at the hardware and the disappointment at the paradigm. I wish the keynote had three extra demos: - Something whimsical to inspire developers. Give me files represented as physical blocks that I can pile, or a task manager that shows processes as plants around me. Close apps by scrunching their screen like paper. A globe with my geotagged pictures. - A game, any game. Beat Saber was the killer app for…

  > Give me files represented as physical blocks that I can pile
Man, people still want a file manager like fsn on IRIX systems, 30 years later...

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#108

Post by fotta »

gcr wrote: post #32
JohnBooty wrote: post #21

But it does put an enormous amount of pressure on the eye tracking. As far as I can tell so far, the role of precise 2D control has been shifted to the eyes. I've got one good eye and one bad eye. The bad eye is legally blind, has an off-center iris and is kind of lazy w.r.t. tracking. I'm extremely curious to know how Vision Pro deals with this. One certainly hopes there's some kind of "single eye" mode; certainly s…

I have pendulum nystagmus since birth. My eyes saccade and shake very rapidly, even when I'm focused on something. Folks who talk with me certainly notice. I really hope I won't be locked out of using vision pro just because its input modality isn't compatible with my body...

They describe alternate pointer modes in this presentation (18:30) https://developer.apple.com/wwdc23/10034

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#109

Post by astrange »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #55
zmmmmm wrote: post #19

Interesting notes. I'm disappointed even though it's entirely predictable that VisionOS is built on the iOS/iPadOS foundation rather than OSX. I guess we'll see how "walled in" it is but it's hard to see any reason Apple isn't going to be just as constraining and controlling about what happens on this OS as they are on iOS, if not more so. Which ultimately means I'll be very reluctant to ever adopt it in any meaningf…

> I'm disappointed even though it's entirely predictable that VisionOS is built on the iOS/iPadOS foundation rather than OSX. They’re the same foundation, iOS is a fork of OS X and was originally announced as such. I’d be shocked if there isn’t a well maintained internal build of iOS which keeps parity with macOS windowing etc. The difference in restrictions between the platforms is entirely arbitrary. If this device…

It certainly isn't arbitrary, macOS has swap and doesn't kill apps and iOS doesn't have swap and does kill apps. This makes everything very different, and one makes it easier to do real-time rendering than the other.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#110

Post by glhaynes »

mikenew wrote: post #69
balaji1 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fitness and gaming wasn't demoed much yesterday, but are going to be insane on the Vision Pro - so I guess it was just too obvious to demo. Or is it? Also Meta could catch up if it was just software. But how big of a deal is the M2+R1? Anyway the metaverse was already being retracted, else this Vision Pro could have hammered Meta. Clearly Occulus has to evolve to match VisionPro. Controller has to be optional. It has…

> I guess it was just too obvious to demo. Or is it? Gaming can't be good, because there's no controllers. Even if the hand and eye tracking is absolutely S-tier, you're never getting something like button input from swinging your empty hands around, twitching your fingers. Just the occlusion from the back of your hand would be enough enough for that to be impossible. Fitness might be more doable, but even then I thi…

They talked about and briefly showed using game controllers and keyboards/pointing devices with it.
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