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Notes on Vision Pro

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Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#31

Post by atleastoptimal »

gnicholas wrote: post #24
JohnBooty wrote: post #21

But it does put an enormous amount of pressure on the eye tracking. As far as I can tell so far, the role of precise 2D control has been shifted to the eyes. I've got one good eye and one bad eye. The bad eye is legally blind, has an off-center iris and is kind of lazy w.r.t. tracking. I'm extremely curious to know how Vision Pro deals with this. One certainly hopes there's some kind of "single eye" mode; certainly s…

It would have been much less exciting to see Tom Cruise sitting on a couch, hands in his lap, gently flicking his fingers to scroll through crime scene footage. IIRC he talked about how tired his arms got during filming. EDIT: found it — he didn't talk about it, but it was reported that he had to frequently rest his arms: https://medium.com/@LeapMotion/taking-motion-control-ergonom...

Yeah, Tom Cruise doesn't seem like the type of person to admit he would need to rest his arms.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#32

Post by gcr »

JohnBooty wrote: post #21

But it does put an enormous amount of pressure on the eye tracking. As far as I can tell so far, the role of precise 2D control has been shifted to the eyes. I've got one good eye and one bad eye. The bad eye is legally blind, has an off-center iris and is kind of lazy w.r.t. tracking. I'm extremely curious to know how Vision Pro deals with this. One certainly hopes there's some kind of "single eye" mode; certainly s…

I have pendulum nystagmus since birth. My eyes saccade and shake very rapidly, even when I'm focused on something. Folks who talk with me certainly notice.

I really hope I won't be locked out of using vision pro just because its input modality isn't compatible with my body...

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#33

Post by throw74775 »

bodge5000 wrote: post #27
zmmmmm wrote: post #19

Interesting notes. I'm disappointed even though it's entirely predictable that VisionOS is built on the iOS/iPadOS foundation rather than OSX. I guess we'll see how "walled in" it is but it's hard to see any reason Apple isn't going to be just as constraining and controlling about what happens on this OS as they are on iOS, if not more so. Which ultimately means I'll be very reluctant to ever adopt it in any meaningf…

Yeh this was my main thought. However good the hardware is doesn't matter if the software can't fully utilise it. The idea of virtual displays (the most obvious immediate benefit of Vision imo) for MacOS seems like a huge benefit, but for iPadOS its downgraded to pretty cool. I've never felt any particular need to add multiple displays to my iPad, and whilst a big display would be nice, I wouldn't describe it as grou…

This might have made sense with the iPad but I can't see how anyone is going to write software that 'fully utilizes' the system in a way that Apple doesn't support without billions of dollars of investment.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#34

Post by gnicholas »

atleastoptimal wrote: post #31
gnicholas wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would have been much less exciting to see Tom Cruise sitting on a couch, hands in his lap, gently flicking his fingers to scroll through crime scene footage. IIRC he talked about how tired his arms got during filming. EDIT: found it — he didn't talk about it, but it was reported that he had to frequently rest his arms: https://medium.com/@LeapMotion/taking-motion-control-ergonom...

Yeah, Tom Cruise doesn't seem like the type of person to admit he would need to rest his arms.

What gave it away, the iron cross at the beginning of MI:2?

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#35

Post by throw74775 »

zmmmmm wrote: post #30
wahnfrieden wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be more specific what you mean by building on "OSX". AppKit is very old and crusty. Why would they build on AppKit? You want that?

Ultimately its more about the openness of the OS. If they built on iPadOS but they made a reasonable experience for freely sideloading apps, I'd be OK with it. Or even if they support WebXR really well, I might (just) find a way to be OK with that. But if they lock this down and position themselves as rentseekers to take a cut from every piece of software that runs there regardless of how much they contributed to it…

You don't think they are contributing something by creating this platform?

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#36

Post by gnicholas »

Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote: post #29
gnicholas wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting point — if you no longer need to use a joystick to aim your weapon, how will controllers evolve? Will the second joystick be used for some other function, or will it be replaced by a different type of input method? It would be funny if controllers evolved to be more like the single-joystick models that we had decades ago, with the joystick on the left and rows of buttons on the right. History doesn't repe…

One joystick has to exist since there are many videogames where the character is not in focus (barely), thinking of hack and slash with top down camera (the recent diablo 4),the majority of the focus is on where the attacks are going. In top down bullet hell shooters the player had to aim and shoot in one direction as it walks in another (potentially opposite), so one stick is still needed

Agreed — I'm thinking we'd have just one joystick, to control movement. The second joystick could evolve into some new interface, or devolve into a row of buttons.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#37

Post by beoberha »

ketzo wrote: post #26
russellbeattie wrote: post #15

> But it does put an enormous amount of pressure on the eye tracking. As far as I can tell so far, the role of precise 2D control has been shifted to the eyes. I've been researching eye tracking for my own project for the past year. I have a Tobii eye tracker which is probably the best eye tracking device for consumers currently (or the only one really). It's much more accurate than trying to repurpose a webcam. The…

From reading/listening to reports of people who were able to demo the device, I think Apple may have nailed it, or come close. Everyone I've seen has absolutely raved about how accurate and intuitive the eye tracking + hand gesture feels.

I just went to echo this. Most of the reviews I’ve watched or read have raved about the eye tracking, regardless of if the reviewer was a fan of VR in general. It feels really cool that we might finally have a new computing paradigm. There is so much potential here and I can’t wait to see where things go.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#38

Post by SamuelAdams »

zmmmmm wrote: post #19

Interesting notes. I'm disappointed even though it's entirely predictable that VisionOS is built on the iOS/iPadOS foundation rather than OSX. I guess we'll see how "walled in" it is but it's hard to see any reason Apple isn't going to be just as constraining and controlling about what happens on this OS as they are on iOS, if not more so. Which ultimately means I'll be very reluctant to ever adopt it in any meaningf…

I also wonder if it made more sense from a security perspective. In the early iOS days, one of the big problems for desktop apps was unrestricted access to your data. IOS improved this with application sandboxing by default, and it eventually made its way into OS X.

But we all know the difference between implementing something brand new versus retrofitting something into an existing system. So my guess is iOS had more secure defaults for a system like vision.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#39

Post by atchoo »

kfarr wrote: post #22
zmmmmm wrote: post #19

Interesting notes. I'm disappointed even though it's entirely predictable that VisionOS is built on the iOS/iPadOS foundation rather than OSX. I guess we'll see how "walled in" it is but it's hard to see any reason Apple isn't going to be just as constraining and controlling about what happens on this OS as they are on iOS, if not more so. Which ultimately means I'll be very reluctant to ever adopt it in any meaningf…

Definitely pros and cons. I remember reading that because of the tight integration with iOS this allowed them to achieve best in class latency for iPad + pencil that couldn't be achieved on any other platform. Having followed Oculus / Quest development that low latency is not optional in this context and every millisecond counts so I can see why they would go this route. On the other hand, the closed ecosystem is def…

> best in class latency for iPad + pencil

Hmm. Marketing horse-puckey.

A 2018 Dell XPS that has a Wacom digitiser and OneNote gives me lower latency and better inking experience than an iPad and pencil 2. I used them side by side for long-form writing for a while and the iPad was left in the dust.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#40

Post by NolF »

JohnBooty wrote: post #21

But it does put an enormous amount of pressure on the eye tracking. As far as I can tell so far, the role of precise 2D control has been shifted to the eyes. I've got one good eye and one bad eye. The bad eye is legally blind, has an off-center iris and is kind of lazy w.r.t. tracking. I'm extremely curious to know how Vision Pro deals with this. One certainly hopes there's some kind of "single eye" mode; certainly s…

Considering there is a "calibration" step. I'm going to guess that as long as the "bad" eye behaves relatively predictably, it should be able to ignore the bad input and put appropriate weight on the "good" eye.

It will also be interesting how the outward display will display the "bad" eye input including missing eyes, lazy eyes, nystagmus, etc...

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