https://t.me/jurnko/7938 [Ukrainian language]
Here’s a post from Kherson journalist with breakdown of Russian propagandist reactions to the situation for those who still think it’s not Russian orchestrated explosion.
The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open
161–170 of 347 posts
Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
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It's sad how people still believe Russian propaganda, and these claims have been constant throughout the war: - We didn't bomb the civilians, that was Ukraine. - The torture chambers weren't ours, they were found in Ukraine. - Ukraine are nazis (no comments on the Russian white supremacists in the military). - We did not blow up Nord Stream 2, that was Ukraine (or the US). - We did not blow up the dam, that was Ukrai…
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Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's sad how people still believe Russian propaganda, and these claims have been constant throughout the war: - We didn't bomb the civilians, that was Ukraine. - The torture chambers weren't ours, they were found in Ukraine. - Ukraine are nazis (no comments on the Russian white supremacists in the military). - We did not blow up Nord Stream 2, that was Ukraine (or the US). - We did not blow up the dam, that was Ukrai…
It's called "fog of war". If you believe everything Ukraine/US/EU says you are just as much as a fool as if you did believing Russia.
The OP "believes" that the Russians bombed out their own pipeline, a thing not even mentioned by the Western press anymore (it's all a "blob" for them at this point).
Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
No it's very simple. If Russia didn't invade, Russia wouldn't be killing people and blowing up their stuff. Russia's actions are Russia's responsibility, not America's.
Constant surprise how many pro Russian views there are from a mainly American audience on a tech website. I'm anti war, anti the US going into Iraq for example. Therefore I'm on the side of Ukraine here and we should give any support necessary for them to defend themselves. No "provocation" that happened or has been made up or imagined by Russia excuses what they're doing. There are plenty of political reasons I don'…
Don't confuse "pro-Russian" with "anti-bullshit" stance.
Finding Russia to be the aggressor and Ukraine to be the victim doesn't automatically imply you have to throw away all your mental faculties and gobble up wartime propaganda without questioning, reducing yourself to a binary classifier - "it says Ukraine good == it's good; otherwise, it's pro-Russian trolling".
War time is literally the last moment you want to take what anyone involved says at face value. The eagerness with which people in tech circles - including on this very website too - are jumping in to loudly signal their allegiance with a side (be it Ukraine in this conflict, or US in US vs. China threads, or...), whether or not it even makes sense, much less follows any kind of sensible reasoning - this is what keeps baffling me. As a teenager/young adult, I had the impression that STEM circles are better than this. The last decade has proven me wrong.
Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Meanwhile you're sitting in your comfy chairs asking for 'credible sources' and wondering which side this benefits more. But it's precisely because we're sitting in a comfy chair that we have to ask for credible sources. "Fog of War" is a real thing and disinformation campaigns have been integral to this war. Most people here couldn't pinpoint this dam on a map and it's not immediately obvious that this isn't some…
The fact that the victim is not credible to you is already appaling.
You seem to be quite misinformed about the war. It's openly known that Ukraine is running propaganda campaigns and intentionally publishes misleading information, to win the information war. Note, this isn't bad and in fact is encouraged by us western allies. We *want* Ukraine to lie. In fact that's how the last counter offensive happened. Ukraine ran a massive propaganda campaign about their "offensive" in the south, then attacked in the north. That's also why even western secret services don't know how many soldiers Ukraine has lost so far. That's also why we don't know who blew up Nordstream 1&2, even though the tracks point to a Ukrainian oligarch, as reported by reputable western newspapers.
But that doesn't mean that we - normal citizens in comfy chairs - can't try to look through the fog of war. No reason to go into the Reddit outrage mode. It's very possible that Ukraine has made a mistake or expects some military advantage from the dam breaking. But its also very possible that Russia broke the dam, to enhance their defense. Or it was an honest mistake due to lack of maintenance. Or it was a partisan group, who are active in this area. We will probably only really know in 2-3 months, when independent western experts have finished their investigation, anyone stating "facts" beforehand is just making up stuff. It isn't "victim" blaming to keep some rational mind in this conflict. We all know that Russia is a genocidal aggressor, but we also know that Ukraine is intentionally spreading misinformation, to gain military advantages.
Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open
#166Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/nova-kakhovka-dam-khers... Simulation of worst-case scenarios: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tRYWbVD5AE The Russian State News agency claims that the dam "collapsed due to damage" https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/166592960325106892... Ukraine says it was destroyed by the Russian military. Google maps: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kakhovka+Hydroelectric+Po…
Who benefits the most from the collapse?
Does it disturb Ukraine or Russian military the most? Who will achieve military goals because of this?
Does it help Ukraine in information warfare? (does it increase West participation to war)
Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open
#167I'm not a military expert, but it seems like this will benefit the Russians, who will now have time to reinforce and strengthen their positions in Kherson Oblast on the south side of the Dnipro River at a time when Ukraine has been gaining momentum, and possibly considering crossing for a counter-offensive. From a purely positional perspective, this is a big advantage for the Russians, who benefit from a more prolong…
I'm not sure Ukraine ever planned a large-scale crossing of the Dnipro from Kherson. Certainly not for the main thrust of the counter offensive.
Ukraine needed to present a credible threat to cross there to pin Russian forces in the area. Now that it's basically impossible to cross the river, Russia can redeploy the majority of the forces to other areas.
Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
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I'm not talking about the 2014 "election" that happened after the Crimea invasion. I'm talking about before all that. The 2014 coup openly supported by US and Europe that overthrew Ukraine's pro-Russian elected President. These things aren't propaganda, they are events that happened. Do you honestly believe that coup was totally organic and the US had no hand in that one (just others)? There is precedent for the US m…
Imagine seriously thinking that a society that had financed one of the largest militaries in the world on a partially ground-up/volunteer basis for the last nine years couldn't finance an internal revolution against a corrupt twice convicted criminal who infringed on his own campaign promises, the rights of businessmen, and human rights, and who fled to the country that had been threatening Ukraine ever since the 2003 Tuzla incident, while also keeping the Parliament running throughout the events and preserving a Constitutional majority of representatives.
Nah, it's all the US, of course. Ukrainians can't do shit in their own country, except breaking the back of the second largest army in the world purely out of spite towards those who want to take away their freedoms.
Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open
#169[flagged]
I've always found it difficult to see how most Germans in WW2 supported Hitler and the regime.
But here we have in the free world, with access to all the information from the internet and who can read what journalists all over the world report, who still choose to believe a state that act in the exact same manner.
At least in Nazigermany the narrative was controlled and it was difficult to "see the other side".
It's absolutely crazy how even ridiculous propaganda can be effective.
(And yes, some of the Russian propaganda is absolutely ridiculous.)
Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
that one is 150 million kilometers away, and we have an atmosphere for our protection.
Yet, you cannot look at it with the naked eye for more than a second & it scorches large areas of Earth leaving only dry desert sand.
There's an oversimplification.
Entire bands of the earths surface receive the same amount of sunlight per square metre for similar amounts of average time per day.
Only some of these regions are left with only dry desert sand.
There might be more to this than simple hours per day of sunlight, topography for one factor.