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The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

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Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#101

Post by wiseowise »

MrOwnPut wrote: post #81
wiseowise wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I'm not talking about the 2014 "election" that happened after the Crimea invasion. I'm talking about before all that. The 2014 coup openly supported by US and Europe that overthrew Ukraine's pro-Russian elected President. These things aren't propaganda, they are events that happened. Do you honestly believe that coup was totally organic and the US had no hand in that one (just others)? There is precedent for the US m…

> I'm not talking about the 2014 "election" that happened after the Crimea invasion. I'm talking about before all that. The 2014 coup openly supported by US and Europe that overthrew Ukraine's pro-Russian elected President.

Neither am I, did you even read my comment?

It’s a revolution, not a coup, when will you learn already?

And I don’t understand the point you’re trying to make. That without US and Europe Euromaidan would never succeed? Or that Euromaidan was orchestrated by US and Europe?

> These things aren't propaganda, they are events that happened.

Events that happened is Ukrainians CHOSE Europe. Russians CHOSE to invade in 2014 and 2022.

> Do you honestly believe that coup was totally organic and the US had no hand in it?

Yes. How much do you even know about history of Ukraine?

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#102

Post by dtx1 »

marius321967 wrote: post #68

[flagged]

> Meanwhile you're sitting in your comfy chairs asking for 'credible sources' and wondering which side this benefits more.

But it's precisely because we're sitting in a comfy chair that we have to ask for credible sources. "Fog of War" is a real thing and disinformation campaigns have been integral to this war. Most people here couldn't pinpoint this dam on a map and it's not immediately obvious that this isn't some tactical decision by ukraine to advance their counter operation.

To you it might be obvious that this is part of russias illegal war, to me it's not and i'd rather wait a few days until things clear up instead of rushing to judgement without understanding it.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#103

Post by deadbolt »

marius321967 wrote: post #68

[flagged]

> You can be an achieved software developer, civil engineer or doctor - doesn't mean you're not an idiot.

Whatever you are doesn't make you some genius either.

We're all just people. Trying to understand an incredibly complicated situation doesn't make someone stupid.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#105

Post by Larrikin »

lawn wrote: post #82
dehrmann wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's sad how people still believe Russian propaganda, and these claims have been constant throughout the war: - We didn't bomb the civilians, that was Ukraine. - The torture chambers weren't ours, they were found in Ukraine. - Ukraine are nazis (no comments on the Russian white supremacists in the military). - We did not blow up Nord Stream 2, that was Ukraine (or the US). - We did not blow up the dam, that was Ukrai…

Fool me once, you invade a country and lie about everything.

Ukraine exaggerates their victories to get weapons.

Russia lies about war crimes, murdering civilians, rape, etc.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#106

Post by Scoundreller »

dralley wrote: post #44
dehrmann wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Crimea has survived without water for years previously. Russia may have determined that the expense of some aquaducts across the Kerch Strait is less than the expense they may incur from a successful Ukrainian crossing of the river. Or they may have determined they are likely to lose Crimea anyway and are salting the earth behind them. This is to say, there are plenty of reasons why they may feel motivated to do this…

They may not “need” the water for drinking, but it looks like it supports a lot of crop irrigation.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#107

Post by randunel »

_glsb wrote: post #99
sschueller wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called "fog of war". If you believe everything Ukraine/US/EU says you are just as much as a fool as if you did believing Russia.

[flagged]

This "whataboutism" is perfectly valid, because it highlights double standards. Whataboutism isn't a blanket logical fallacy, it's applicable in certain scenarios.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#109

Post by perihelions »

bullen wrote: post #46

I we focus on the largest nuclear power plant in Europe for a minute. Are all reactors completely shut off? Is there any danger of meltdown?

Of course it's totally unsafe: it's in a war zone. It's on the current, active front line of a warzone. If this dam collapse doesn't cause a catastrophic spent fuel nuclear disaster in the next few hours, there's still imminent danger of that from any number of different causes – most visibly, military actions occurring right next to (or inside of!) the power plant. The IAEA messaging has been extremely shrill about this for like a continuous year, and no one listens.

e.g.

- "After nearly nine months of failed efforts to forge an agreement between Ukraine and Russia to establish a protection zone around the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant (ZNPP), Rafael Mariano Grossi, the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, is now pushing for a new proposal to reduce the possibility of a catastrophic nuclear disaster."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/05/22/ukraine-zapo... (May 22)

and

- "Ukraine’s Zaporizhzhya Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP) has been without external back-up power for three months now, leaving it extremely vulnerable in case the sole functioning main power line goes down again"

https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/pressreleases/update-160-iae... (June 2)

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#110

Post by dralley »

nixass wrote: post #77
dralley wrote: post #3

Dang, https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/166590794898645811... is a more informative thread

There are probably dozens of better sources online on this particular topic than OP's. I don't understand people "Danging" in threads

I am op
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