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What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

theatlantic.com

101–110 of 418 posts

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#101
post #23

As advanced countries' systems for marriage and child-rearing continue to fail, there is a constant demand for cope. What if we learned to love being single? What if we substitute friendship for marriage? 64 ways to enjoy retirement on your own! This is the collective version of listening to an alcoholic explain why he doesn't have a problem.

> As advanced countries' systems for marriage and child-rearing continue to fail

US divorce rates are at a 50-year low.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#102
post #54

I don't like anyone as much as I like my wife, straight up. It's incredible to have a partner that acts as my actual 'other half'. We are two sides of the same coin. It's an amazing thing. I can't, nor do I want to, get that close to other people.

That doesn't always happen though. I feel the most lonely when I'm alone with my wife. We can only have a back and forth conversation on topics that interest her, or the day to day of the house/kids, anything outside those things is just never discussed or is a one-way conversation that just dies. I was friendless and grew up with the same 15 boys until the end of highschool, never fit in. Married the first girl who…

Dude, this isn't "normal".

"I'm most lonely when I'm alone with my wife" -- that is not healthy or good. I don't think your situation is applicable to the OP.

As a counter, I feel most comfortable when I am alone with my wife. She is my best friend.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#103
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American perspective: the more affluent European cities that I've visited are full of young people that moved from halfway across the country or even other countries entirely in order to find better jobs. In the less affluent cities, people who are unable to move out often end up stuck and marginally employed. The idea of settling nearby with their high school friends doing mostly the same thing is an idealistic fant…

Anecdote but I have had the same friends since I was 4. Like kindergarten friends. I have new friends as well but my kindergarten friends know me even better than I know myself. It's awesome every time we hang out. We basically laugh at everything. We learned to laugh with each other and literally created each other's sense of humor and social personality. I honestly feel so lucky. One of them moved 6 hours away but…

> It's like the SV lifestyle created ADHD in him.

I'm not in Silicon Valley, but I am in tech, and I notice myself slipping towards this as well. More and more, I find myself letting the current hot topic of the day run through my mind non-stop, over and over. I am unable to simply take a break from it all. I no longer have the patience to just sit on a deck for an hour with my own thoughts, I have to be reading news articles or learning a new skill or I feel like I am "wasting" my time.

I am envious of you and your kindergarten friends. Most of my high school and college friends have moved away, and I don't reach out to them enough.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#104
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traditional Catholicism. “Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himself up for it.” Doesn’t take more than a minute of reflection to figure out why we interpret it this way. Edit @avar to your question ("posting too fast"): https://gist.github.com/gjsman/d928b0db53cc2a4bacf37d4e45543...

I'm an atheist, but this is an honest question: does it? My understanding of catholic doctrine is that Jesus was part of the holy Trinity and knew it before he sacrificed himself. Therefore when he sacrificed himself for humanity he wasn't in the sort of personal danger or at risk of eternal damnation that a mere mortal in his shoes would be. I've always understood that as God making a grand gesture of some sort, not…

Am an atheist that grew up Catholic and studied at a Catholic school for 10+ years; Jesus was more like someone who knew he had a deep connection to God but didn't know he was a part of the holy trinity until his resurrection. He experienced serious moments of doubt exemplified on the cross when he shouted, "Father why have you forsaken me?" He was intwined with local hookers and is thought to have had a relationship with Mary Magdalene.

That would make his moment of sacrifice an entirely human experience. imo, that but was designed intentionally because Catholics believe that everyone is a somewhat lesser version of Jesus in that way. Everyone has "original sin" and conflicts and doubt, but can be saved by the intent which they live their lives, not mere acts.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#105
For guys at least it is.

You'll never be happier than the age 14-19 when you are with your mates on a daily basis. One solid block against the world.

Against the teacher, against the principal, against the bullies, scoring weed, scoring alchol, scoring pu*y , against everybody who wants to prevent you from scoring weed, alcohol and pu*y.

The problem is that this lifestyle is subsidized by parents who are the wage-slaves in the whole equation.

And also in this period the stuff is less important than the people you are experiencing it with, then growing up somehow it's the stuff which becomes the core of the effort. Placing too much attention on the stuff then makes you become a wage-slave and lose contact with your friends.

Marriage becomes something to alleviate the mysery not something done with enthusiasm

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#106
As someone who departed a miserable marriage and now find myself very alone with very few friends the only advice I can give is take very, very good care of your marriage and take very, very good care of your friendships.

Comparing wife / husband to friends is like apples and pears. It's like asking which of your children you like the most. If friends complain about the time spent with your partner, ditch them and if your partner does the same about your friends, ditch them as well.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#107
post #23

As advanced countries' systems for marriage and child-rearing continue to fail, there is a constant demand for cope. What if we learned to love being single? What if we substitute friendship for marriage? 64 ways to enjoy retirement on your own! This is the collective version of listening to an alcoholic explain why he doesn't have a problem.

> As advanced countries' systems for marriage and child-rearing continue to fail US divorce rates are at a 50-year low.

That's not a complete argument though (not to say the conclusion's wrong, I have no idea) - what's happened to marriage, non-divorce separation, death, and birth rates?

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#108
I never thought marriage was at the center of life, and I'm a bit surprised to think some people think that way. In my book marriage is a contract whose main purpose is to agree on what will happen when the spouse divorce (which happens for more than 45% of marriages in my country, and growing). It's not clear to me why it should be a the center of anything, and of life especially.

Friendship on the other hand feels important.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#109

As June rolled around today, I was just reflecting on the history of sexuality, and the philosophical shift that has occurred relatively recently, from "lifestyle" to "orientation" to "identity" and all that comes with it. People in the past did not consider themselves to have sexual orientations, to be gay or straight or something else. Even someone who was committed to a same-sex romantic relationship wouldn't have…

It's interesting that you put the people with those "behaviors" or "passions" as the agents who have switched to "identity". In reality, it's the oppressors who "identified" them.

That is such an excellent summary of a concept I've only recently started to realize and it seems so obvious in hindsight. I'm pretty sure it's never going to get through to the people that would need to hear it in order for the world to change though.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#110
post #76
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha ... recently single with two young kids. I find it actually easier to raise them (admittedly only every other week). No more arguments about "who's turn is it to put them in bed", "why do I always have to do this" etc ... They may seem like simple questions that can easily be answered but it's really quite complex: "Had a tough day at work, could you do it?", which leads to score keeping and different views on wha…

As they age, you're going to find a whole different level of arguing about how to raise kids on an every-other-week rotation with conflicting influences/decisions. Trust me, I've seen it. It can work, but you're gonna need to put in some work on the relationship with the other parent to get through it and find decent compromises.

Respectfully, the last thing I'm going to do is put in work with my ex wife. When the kids are with me I'll do whatever I want. Those types of discussions are one of the reasons why we're no longer together.
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