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iPhone maker Wistron quits, saying Apple didn't let it make a profit

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Re: iPhone maker Wistron quits, saying Apple didn't let it make a profit

#51
post #26
post #8

"We didn't understand our costs, so we underbid and now are blaming Apple." - Wistron

Yes, that's certainly a valid reaction, and is likely partially true. It's also true that Apple is very well known for very hard negotiation and squeezing their suppliers until there's only a few percent margin. You'd have to be insanely good at controlling all of your costs to make money all the time under that constraint. If yields change or component/material prices fluctuate the wrong way any predicted profit cou…

> You'd have to be insanely good at controlling all of your costs to make money all the time

But to be fair, that's what hardware manufacturers are supposed to be good at.

The whole point is that the ones who are good at it make money, the ones who aren't go out of business. That's capitalism in a nutshell at every level, and manufacturing especially.

Re: iPhone maker Wistron quits, saying Apple didn't let it make a profit

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only suckers formally know anything .

There be dragons. Better a high trust society with some checks and balances than one ruled by "don't write down anything" sociopaths.

tell that to the lawyers who make a living defending corporations and putting up legal firewalls of plausible deniability

Re: iPhone maker Wistron quits, saying Apple didn't let it make a profit

#53

https://nypost.com/2020/12/15/riots-at-apple-plant-in-india-... this is what apple does. they use their clout, then they turn their back and play ignorant whilst placing unrealistic demands on the subcontractors who then place those demand on the labour. from: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/02/14/only-half-of-indian-iph... > "Apple engineers told that Chinese iPhone suppliers and government officials have a "whatever…

> "There just isn't a sense of urgency," one Apple engineer remarked."

Apple meets India, nothing new. They'll just have to adapt.

https://youtu.be/BTd-PWYQy4Y

Re: iPhone maker Wistron quits, saying Apple didn't let it make a profit

#54
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Winstron's divestment to Tata was honestly a good move. A big reason Foxconn, Winstron, and other Taiwanese/Malaysian/Singaporean assemblers were able to succeed in Mainland China was due to cultural competency within the existing Chinese diaspora (eg. knowing how to communicate to who, how to manage workers, etc). Foxconn, Winstron, and co would just straight up have Taiwanese/Malaysian/Singaporean/Thai Chinese move…

I rememeber in 90s, local mid-level managers who worked for MNC in PRC tend to like their SKR bosses and frequently hated TW bosses simply because cultural overlap allowed them to push harder. With SKR they could at least feign ignorance with language barrier but TBH still got their work done. I can imagine shitshow of having language barrier and still not meeting KPIs because they're not cross culture competent. Any…

> worked for MNC in PRC tend to like their SKR bosses and frequently hated TW bosses simply because cultural overlap allowed them to push harder. With SKR they could at least feign ignorance with language barrier but TBH still got their work done

Haha yep, I've heard similar stories in Vietnam as well. Idk why but Taiwanese/Malaysian/Singaporean management culture is absolutely atrocious compared to Japanese+SK management culture. All of them share equally shitty work cultures, but at least the Japanese+SK ones actually tried to train people from scratch. I really don't know why Taiwanese/Malaysian/Singaporean companies don't do that as well.

> always felt like matter of time before audit/tax or political shenanigans drive foreign electronics assemblers out and eventually consolidate under India champions

Ehn, India's a federal system so financial+political shenanigans are highly dependent on the state's political and business culture.

It's the same in PRC ofc, with the administration in Guangdong/Zhejiang/Fujian being much more competent than the administration in Yunnan, Hunan, or Hubei.

That said, knowing about these intricacies requires cultural domain experience, which can only be acquired by training+hiring locally, or working with local players.

> I remember numbers last year that 2500/12000 registered forreign companies closed Indian operations since mid 10s, so maybe it's time for India chaebols to take over

I'd be curious about the breakdown by nationality.

After the Doklam standoff in 2017, Indian Federal Regulators began cracking down on Chinese FDI severely (which before 2018 was one of the largest FDI inflows India received), which lead those firms to divest their operations to Indian, Korean, Taiwanese or Japanese corporations.

For example, Xiaomi India's operation was originally run from Mainland China itself, but they were forced to sell their India operation to a Taiwanese-Indian consortium, so the only Chinese thing left of Xiaomi India is just the name.

Re: iPhone maker Wistron quits, saying Apple didn't let it make a profit

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're using the Walmart playbook

Some context may be needed. Walmart is known in MBA circles for being one of the first companies to have used detailed data on products to negotiate new terms with suppliers ( usually to suppliers detriment ). Information asymmetry with main goal to increase a chance for an increased leverage is what it is all about.

Ok, so what do people expect the alternative route is? It's a known strategy, that works, and increases profit if implemented correctly.

Re: iPhone maker Wistron quits, saying Apple didn't let it make a profit

#56
post #53

https://nypost.com/2020/12/15/riots-at-apple-plant-in-india-... this is what apple does. they use their clout, then they turn their back and play ignorant whilst placing unrealistic demands on the subcontractors who then place those demand on the labour. from: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/02/14/only-half-of-indian-iph... > "Apple engineers told that Chinese iPhone suppliers and government officials have a "whatever…

> "There just isn't a sense of urgency," one Apple engineer remarked." Apple meets India, nothing new. They'll just have to adapt. https://youtu.be/BTd-PWYQy4Y

As an aside, it’s ridiculous that video got flagged as a video for kids and suggests downloading the YouTube Kids app.

Re: iPhone maker Wistron quits, saying Apple didn't let it make a profit

#57
a similar situation just happened between Nvidia and EVGA. NVidia makes the chips, And So, holds all the bargaining chips so to speak, and EVGA is just the board partner that has to find some way to make the price work. At some point it becomes impossible and they have to actually walk away in order to not be taken advantage of. We know this much, and I'm going to assume the situation was similar here with Apple and Wistron.

Re: iPhone maker Wistron quits, saying Apple didn't let it make a profit

#58

https://nypost.com/2020/12/15/riots-at-apple-plant-in-india-... this is what apple does. they use their clout, then they turn their back and play ignorant whilst placing unrealistic demands on the subcontractors who then place those demand on the labour. from: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/02/14/only-half-of-indian-iph... > "Apple engineers told that Chinese iPhone suppliers and government officials have a "whatever…

> this is what apple does

This is what globalism does. Take the environmental destruction and shitty working conditions that would never be allowed in your own country to other countries and centralize the profits from doing so into the hands of a few.

Re: iPhone maker Wistron quits, saying Apple didn't let it make a profit

#59
post #8

"We didn't understand our costs, so we underbid and now are blaming Apple." - Wistron

It does seem likely that this is a case of a bit of column A, a bit of column B. Apple very well may have unrealistic demands, but I believe it's also likely that Wistron may not have dealt with the level of QC, precision, and consistency that is expected of Apple products and based their estimates on experiences of working with more typical hardware companies.

Wistron is large part of the reason why IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads are regarded as some kind of etalon of quality and repairability. I assume that most of the issue there is misunderstanding of how to run a factory in India and how is that different from both Far East and Europe.

Re: iPhone maker Wistron quits, saying Apple didn't let it make a profit

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're using the Walmart playbook

Some context may be needed. Walmart is known in MBA circles for being one of the first companies to have used detailed data on products to negotiate new terms with suppliers ( usually to suppliers detriment ). Information asymmetry with main goal to increase a chance for an increased leverage is what it is all about.

This is part of it, but a bigger part is simply that Walmart approached suppliers with a proposed volume that would require the company to rebuild themselves as an operation in order to meet that demand and the required service levels, at the price Walmart was willing to pay.

If they succeeded (many didn't, ending in bankruptcy), the supplier was now trapped: no one could offer Walmart levels of volume, which the supplier now had to operate at to make a profit. Walmart could come back next year and demand lower prices. They famously joked amongst themselves that their goal was to drive out all profit for their suppliers.

Vlassic Pickles is the classic example of a company that took the offer, rebuilt themselves, and became massively larger than they were before.

I worked at a manufacturer for several years in IT. Walmart was a customer, but only in a limited way (i.e., without requiring huge volumes and service levels[0]). Our main competitor, Rubbermaid, was a tier 1 supplier. When Rubbermaid's main factory in the segment burned down, Rubbermaid withdrew from Walmart as a supplier, citing low profit margins. We got the call to come to Bentonville, where they offered us the chance to replace Rubbermaid, which would mean a fundamental restructuring of our entire operation to service them. We (wisely) declined.

[0] An example of the service level required: Walmart would send an order by EDI that would include a two hour window for delivery, 24 hours out, for a store. That meant you had to have inventory and drivers within a certain distance from every Walmart location so that you could immediately pick the order, get it on a truck, and arrive at the store within that two hour window.

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