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People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

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321–330 of 443 posts

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#321
post #47

"Why hasn’t the number of deaths by suicide decreased?" That housing and groceries is getting more and more expensive certainly doesn't help with that... Of course, not so many people in this world suffer anymore from hunger but in the last years additional problems came up. I know some older people who think that Depression is just a excuse for not wanting to work but these older people had it easier to build or buy…

You truly think housing and food have anything to do with it? We live in the richest society in history, and also the most suicidal. Why don't people living in true poverty around the world feel depressed and kill themselves like we do? Why do we kill ourselves? It's because we have no communities anymore. Many of us are alone. Some call it a loneliness epidemic. And we've replaced community with social media. Our so…

> Why don't people living in true poverty around the world feel depressed and kill themselves like we do?

That actually happens. There are just not enough statistics about that because nobody cares.

I remember a documentary about a part in China with a very high suicide rate - mostly because people couldn't find a job. Another example would be the Irish Travellers - a community which has it hard to find a job and has a way higher suicide rate than the rest of the UK.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#322
post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this case is indeed controversial and worthy of examining... I'm sceptical of "liveaction.org" as a source because it describes itself thusly: "Live Action News is pro-life news and commentary from a pro-life perspective." Nothing wrong with that of course, but I'd hardly consider it an authoritative source.

This was a commentary piece which quoted (to comment on) other sources. Almost everyone talking about this topic is at least biased, and generally (what's-the-word for "motivated to convince others as to their point-of-view"?).

Upon closer inspection, it's an exact reprint of from an article from "National Review" which is a famously conservative organization.

>This was a commentary piece which quoted (to comment on) other sources.

Understood. I just thought I'd point out the potential for bias because it isn't obvious at a quick read. One of the great things about HN (IMHO) is that people tend to discuss things from a more scientific perspective than a religious or ideological one.

More to the point, there is no link to this study cited in the very first paragraph. As a Canadian I've never heard of this study so was interested to take a look. Googling a bit found the results and further discussion on why the National Review interpretation of it is pretty dishonest.

Sorry, but this is a terrible source for HN.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#323
Technically correct, practically a useless distinction? It's not like "stop suffering, keep living" solutions grow on a tree. One has to contend with:

- Irreversible or hard to reverse brain damage/dysfunction. It doesn't matter if the cause is traumatic experiences, innate conditions or substance abuse, effects are equally hard to remedy

- Irreversible or hard to reverse physical health problems

- Low social capital at late stage in life. If someone wants to have loving friends and family at 50 starting from being lonely and estranged, are they really going to have same results as someone who has been building these up from childhood?

- Financial constraints and difficulty of learning new marketable skills in adulthood

- Clash between reality of surrounding society and expectations that are a deeply ingrained part of one's character

The solutions proposed seem to be drugs (either sanctioned ones like SSRIs or increasingly street ones like ecstasy and mushrooms) and talk therapy premised on one having a Freudian complex in one's head rather than experiencing genuine hardship. I am not saying any of these are totally useless. Even having a few drinks gives one a holiday from endless gloom and can spur one to form social connections or reach conclusions that are still meaningful while sober. But on the whole, I am not sold on treating people like houseplants who are considered diseased if not perfectly happy just sitting around with basic needs provided for. I would rather see more effort to improve human lives in more fundamental ways. And, as a last resort, acceptance that for some it was really not worth it at the end rather than labeling them insane to assuage our own discomfort and avoid questions of our own responsibilities

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#324
post #277

“The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high…

This is where my wife was, a week or so ago. She was initially admitted to hospital for low Sodium (hyponatremia) with no obvious symptoms - we actually went for something else which was benign. They corrected the low Sodium, but they corrected it quickly - possibly too quickly [1]. The next day she started to become non-responsive, and the day after was completely non-responsive - didn't react to pain stimuli, dropp…

What a terrible experience you are going through. I hope it makes a turn for the better, and soon. I'm curious what you mean by one of your closing comments:

>Still trying to answer "why won't someone help me ?" without sounding trite and jaded

Not looking to debate, but genuinely curious.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What/was is the cause of the pain and migraines? What triggered the fix, if you know? (The transition from bed to a kayak)

Underlying causes. Autoimmune Sjogrens, clotting disorder that was in over drive (factor 5) high cranial pressure(IIH) Nerve damage(probably from Sjogrens) lot Vit D Did an elimination diet. That calmed the body down. AIP diet to maintain. Started high doses of Vit D, E, Omega 3. Started watching bob and Brad and spent a couple hours a day on stretching and massages. Discovered and treated TMJ. Removing smells and li…

My wife seems to have broadly the same symptoms you are mentioning.

Sharp migraines, anxiety attacks (as per doctors), rapid heartbeats, disturbed sleep, bodyache, random mood swings etc.

Her MRI is clean too. Doctors just started her with blood thinners which might be alleviating some pain but no, she is not feeling good at all. Had done multiple tests, visited bunch of doctors but still yet to figure what's exactly wrong with her body?

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#326
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to be arrogant or looks like moron, but how can you know that people that you know "went through worse"? How can you measure it? I`m really curious, because all my life I live with understanding that there no way to measure other people feeling, emotions, suffering.

I think the point is that the critical differences are on the inside, not on the outside. People can go through worse experiences on the outside and recover and overcome. This points to the somewhat obvious reality that how people handle and respond to their environmental conditions is a critical factor in outcomes. Sometimes you have to fix the internal root of feelings, emotions, and suffering. You can believe the…

Sure, it's possible for someone who went to war and ended up killing a family of civilians to recover, overcome and lead happy and fulfilled lives henceforth. Does it mean that another soldier struggling with constant guilt and nightmares is defective and in the need of fixing? Our justice system imposes death penalty for murder. What if someone is truly convinced, on rational bases, that they have committed a murder, but in the circumstances where justice doesn't act? Are they acting insane by taking a matter in their own hands?

Now let's take another person who NEEDS to be surrounded by love and belonging and ends up estranged from family and devoid of friends, living alone in an apartment at the age of 50? Are you suggesting that this person needs to be fixed to not intensely crave those things? Or that efforts to build these up at their age are likely to be successful in today's society? Just what physical, emotional and financial resources is anyone else willing to contribute towards this person's well-being, other than pumping them full of numbing drugs?

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#327
post #277

“The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high…

This is where my wife was, a week or so ago. She was initially admitted to hospital for low Sodium (hyponatremia) with no obvious symptoms - we actually went for something else which was benign. They corrected the low Sodium, but they corrected it quickly - possibly too quickly [1]. The next day she started to become non-responsive, and the day after was completely non-responsive - didn't react to pain stimuli, dropp…

It sounds like you're going through a real-life nightmare!

This whole story sounds insane (assuming you're not leaving out essential details), with multiple overlapping failures. I am not a medical professional, so take this all with a grain of salt (no pun intended).

First off, idiopathic hyponatremia in non-elderly, non-pregnant, otherwise healthy people is unusual - why was your wife hyponatremic to begin with? This is worth investigating.

It's amazing to me that it took weeks for you to be told about the risks involved in raising sodium too quickly.

It's ludicrous that a doctor would prescribe daily Ativan for treatment of generalized anxiety in 2023 (Ativan and related benzodiazepine drugs are extremely habit forming, wreck your memory, and don't show evidence of improving anxiety endpoints in the long term. Great for infrequent occasional use, e.g. panic attacks though).

It's even more ludicrous that they would want her to quit cold-turkey if she's been taking Ativan daily for longer than a few weeks. Benzodiazepine withdrawal is unpleasant and dangerous. That said, not being on daily Ativan for anxiety is a good thing. If you want to read up on withdrawing from benzos safely, the Ashton Manual is a popular (although older) source a lot of medical and recreational users have used to get clean[1].

As for the psychological aspects of this ordeal: The only way out is through - you just have to keep going and keep advocating for yourselves. If you haven't already, I highly recommend getting set up with regular therapy for both of yourselves. Falling down happens to us all- getting back up is an difficult but essential part of life, and having a third party there to remind you of your forward progress and push/encourage you when you need it is very valuable.

[1] https://www.benzoinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Ashton-...

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suicide remains a sin in the eyes of the Catholic Church (the largest Christian denomination); and attempting it was a crime, at least in the UK (where I live) until 1961. People still speak of "committing" suicide, like committing murder. I can't think of any other legal act that you can "commit". [Edit] Wrong! Adultery, for example, is legal, and is something you commit. So I suppose that in general, you can "commi…

Sure. People also use the phrase "committing a traffic infraction". "Committing to each other in marriage" "Committing to a college" "Committing money to a cause" "Committing to God by accepting Jesus as your lord and savior" :D I totally understand that there's baggage to this word (suicide). Given the totality of the ending of life I feel that highlighting all of these connotations with the word "suicide" is a good…

Commit and commit to have different meanings. You do not say people committed marriage.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To kill yourself by getting skin cancer?

Not a particularly high risk so long as you get suspicious skin changes checked out. Melanoma has an incredibly good prognosis so long as it's caught early, and unlike most cancers you have a very good chance of catching it early with adequate vigilance.

That's a whole lot of "if".
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