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People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

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Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#141

Post by petesergeant »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #77
probably_wrong wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sidenote: You might want to describe that link, as The Independent redirects based on location and/or device language. All I get is the front page.

It's about a chap in Holland that was a recidivist alcoholic, who took advantage of the Dutch Euthanasia laws, to end his life. There's really no way to put a positive spin on it. It sucks, no matter what opinions we hold on the matter. The laws aren't the issue. If someone really wants to end things; they will. I have seen it many times, and alternative means can be absolutely devastating to the survivors.

> who took advantage of the Dutch Euthanasia laws, to end his life ... it sucks, no matter what opinions we hold on the matter

His brother disagrees with you, explicitly answering an anti-euthanasia protester with: "I am just glad my brother did not have to jump in front of a train or live a few more years in agony before dying of his abuse"

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#142

Post by swayvil »

thr-nrg wrote: post #37

I fully intend to kill myself eventually. The idea that I should prolong my life past the point where I get dementia, a degenerative disease, or just plain old age where I can't stand up or whipe my ass is repugnant enough that I can't understand people who want me to suffer until doctors finally stop being able to put me back together. Much better to die cheaply with a wonderful cocktail of opiates while watching a…

I for one would like to enter that mystery with clear eyes and calm heart. No soul-grinding suffering for me, thanks. I've seen it. Crawling on the floor in your own filth, hissing and snapping at the nurses.

I hear that starvation is good.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#143

Post by kstenerud »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #66
vanviegen wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In others, like this one[0], I find it doubly tragic, as there are proven alternative solutions "eight years of help and 21 stints in rehab" sounds like they tried pretty hard to find a better solution. Not everyone can be cured.

Like I said, I personally know folks that have been clean for decades, and went through worse. I’ll be hanging out with a bunch, tonight. Addiction is a very strange problem. Lots of folks have opinions on it, but I have experience with it. And that’s about all I’ll say on the matter.

AKA the "man up" argument. You know people who survived worse, thereby somehow invalidating the people who didn't make it when they were suffering less. Because you have experience with it and can therefore judge others.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#144

Post by agensaequivocum »

cedws wrote: post #103
martindbp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much easier said than done. I doubt you'll feel the same way when that old age approaches, just like teenagers who think life is practically over by 40.

>just like teenagers who think life is practically over by 40 Sorry but... it kind of is, no? You've probably got a family weighing you down so you can't travel anymore. You don't have the freedom to start new exciting ventures. You can't quit your sucky job because it supports your family. You go to parties that end at 9pm and your social gatherings consist of talking about traffic and grocery prices. You're probabl…

No raise children in your early 20s. When you're forty they'll be adults.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#145

Post by [deleted] »

cedws wrote: post #103
martindbp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much easier said than done. I doubt you'll feel the same way when that old age approaches, just like teenagers who think life is practically over by 40.

>just like teenagers who think life is practically over by 40 Sorry but... it kind of is, no? You've probably got a family weighing you down so you can't travel anymore. You don't have the freedom to start new exciting ventures. You can't quit your sucky job because it supports your family. You go to parties that end at 9pm and your social gatherings consist of talking about traffic and grocery prices. You're probabl…

[deleted]

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#146

Post by ufo »

Some psychologists say that suffering is a necessary component, but not the only one. Also important are a feeling of being burdensome to others, and overcomming the natural instinct to not harm oneself.

Many people who die by suicide wrongly believe that the world would be better without them. This not only feeds the suffering, but also puts them in a position to overcome the natural instincts against self harm. These instincts are also why repeated suicide attempts or access to more lethal methods of suicide increase the risk.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpersonal_theory_of_suic...

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#147

Post by tmtvl »

cedws wrote: post #103
martindbp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much easier said than done. I doubt you'll feel the same way when that old age approaches, just like teenagers who think life is practically over by 40.

>just like teenagers who think life is practically over by 40 Sorry but... it kind of is, no? You've probably got a family weighing you down so you can't travel anymore. You don't have the freedom to start new exciting ventures. You can't quit your sucky job because it supports your family. You go to parties that end at 9pm and your social gatherings consist of talking about traffic and grocery prices. You're probabl…

> Sorry but... it kind of is, no?

No.

> You've probably got a family weighing you down so you can't travel anymore.

Well...

1: Having a family is a choice people make, not everyone over the age of 40 has a family.

2: Just because someone can't travel doesn't mean per life is over.

3: It is (in many cases) entirely possible for someone over 40 to travel with per family.

4: People making the choice to have a family probably wouldn't call it "weighing down".

> You don't have the freedom to start new exciting ventures.

Define "exciting ventures" and explain why it isn't possible. There are many things that can be done as a person over the age of 40, even WITH a family.

> You can't quit your sucky job because it supports your family.

Not everyone over the age of 40 has a "sucky" job and if one has a job which is unpleasant there may very well still be the possibility of changing careers.

> You go to parties that end at 9pm and your social gatherings consist of talking about traffic and grocery prices.

Speaking from experience? It's entirely possible to engage the services of a babysitter and go spend time with friends until the night is well past the point of being young. Also "traffic and grocery prices"? Where do you even get that? People over the age of 40 can be (and usually are) interested in other things like, say, sports, cinema, even the dreaded "celebrity gossip".

> You're probably married to someone you love and respect, but the flame isn't the same as what you once had.

If a couple can't quite manage to Take Hold of the Flame, there is always the possibility of ending the marriage, which may once again open the door to those "new exciting ventures" you mentioned. And regardless even if the relationship isn't what it once was that doesn't mean life is over.

Just my perspective as a 33 year old.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#149

Post by s1artibartfast »

throwawayadvsec wrote: post #129
vanviegen wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In others, like this one[0], I find it doubly tragic, as there are proven alternative solutions "eight years of help and 21 stints in rehab" sounds like they tried pretty hard to find a better solution. Not everyone can be cured.

The first step would be to understand that rehab is not the solution to any kind of problem. Rehab is about making a lot of money, not healing people, they benefit from relapsing, they have zero incentive to help people.

This is a typical overly cynical and overly online take. I think it would be dispelled by talking to or being friends with a single person that works in rehab

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#150

Post by Mezzie »

GordonS wrote: post #126
blooalien wrote: post #70

Wish I could say this headline didn't hit home. Not gonna commit suicide, but I sure do fantasize about dying every waking moment. Living in constant pain for over a decade'll do that to ya… Rather be non-existent than exist in a state of such misery as to make living genuinely impossible.

Hey, fellow chronic pain guy here, though "only" 8 years and counting so far! I have CFS and Small Fibre Neuropathy, which pain-wise means I have constant neuropathic and muscular pain in my limbs. Unless someone has lived with chronic pain, they won't be able to understand what it does to your mental health. Living in constant pain is hard - fucking hard. I've really struggled, and if I didn't have a family, without…

> Unless someone has lived with chronic pain, they won't be able to understand what it does to your mental health. Living in constant pain is hard - fucking hard.

And specifically chronic pain that will never get better and can only get worse. A lot of the platitudes and reasoning we use to get people to not commit suicide don't apply. It can get better? Bitch, I have Multiple Sclerosis. Yes, hopefully science can do something about it, but right now it's an incurable, progressive illness.

I primarily stay alive from a combination of spite and the ability to be a living cautionary/memento mori tale: I did everything 'right' and this still happened. It can happen to you. Work as hard as you like, make all the right choices... you can still fail. Have some grace or be eaten alive when you fall.

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