Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts • Hacker News Board

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#351

Post by jolux » Fri, May 12, 2023, 10:40 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #337

jolux wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with US prisons goes far beyond basic unpleasantness. Take it from the Department of Justice: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-files-laws... "'The Department of Justice conducted a thorough investigation of Alabama’s prisons for men and determined that Alabama violated and is continuing to violate the Constitution because its prisons are riddled with prisoner-on-prisoner and guard-on-pris…

The same department of justice that continues to prosecute a case against Assange? I'm nonplussed. Boris Becker (UK), Amanda Knox (IT), speak to prison brutality (and those are well known international personages.) Ukraine: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/08/ukraine-four-... Mexico: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/americas/mexicos-federal-prisons-a-... Spain: https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-7…

I linked the DOJ and not the Equal Justice Initiative because I thought they would be less likely to be seen as partisan or politically motivated. But here’s EJI on the same issue: https://eji.org/issues/prison-conditions/ and Harvard Political Review making a similar argument to my top post (that US prisons don’t adequately rehabilitate): https://harvardpolitics.com/recidivism-american-progress/

And since you linked Amnesty, here’s their report on solitary confinement at ADX Florence: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2014/07/usa-prisoners...

Ukraine, Mexico, and Brazil are nowhere near as highly developed as the US.

Spain is definitely closer, but Spain doesn’t execute people like the US does. Of course problems with prisons exist elsewhere.

What’s specifically appalling about the US is the juxtaposition of extreme wealth and relative freedom with widespread, institutionalized abuse and neglect of prisoners, not just to their detriment, but to the detriment of the US as a whole.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#352

Post by alphanullmeric » Fri, May 12, 2023, 10:40 PM UTC

aardvarkr wrote: post #8

Lots of comments that didn’t read the article so here’s a good excerpt on why there’s a lawsuit. Baltimore’s lawsuit says the companies “failed to keep up with industry standards,” and claim it was a result of business decisions made to reduce costs and boost profits “notwithstanding decades of academic literature and research supporting the deterrent effects” of anti-theft technology. “The dramatically increased rat…

And you should be sued for leaving your door unlocked if you get robbed, and the guy that robbed you should be pampered by the government as a victim of the system.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#353

Post by draw_down » Fri, May 12, 2023, 10:40 PM UTC

Convolutional wrote: post #185

I should point out to those not from the US that this is how Americans view the US. There is a lot of crime, the government and NGOs are on the side of the criminals etc. It is up voted to the top as well, with agreement in the replies, this is how Americans view the US. The US incarcerates more people than China, despite China having more than four times as many people, but the view obviously is the incarceration ra…

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Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#354

Post by pvillano » Fri, May 12, 2023, 10:43 PM UTC

trafficante wrote: post #187

whitej125 wrote: post #170

I figured these Hyundai/Kia thefts using a USB cable was some techy issue... like there was a auto technicians USB port that would disable car security if it has something plugged into it. No. After 5 minutes of searching you see that a USB-A connector just happens to fit perfectly over the nub in the ignition and allows you to turn it. The problem is there is no engine immobilizer. So you can start the engine just b…

I can see why news organizations don’t want to publicize “your old phone cable is a skeleton key for Kia/Hyundai ignitions” - but it’s kind of a critical piece of information that does push this issue into the realm of manufacturer negligence imo.

Don't worry, the kids are on it

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#355

Post by bluescrn » Fri, May 12, 2023, 10:50 PM UTC

cwoolfe wrote: post #34

alexb_ wrote: post #5

How is it Hyundai's fault that people steal cars? It's acting as if theives are some force of nature that we can't control or something. You prevent theft by putting theives in jail. It's not complicated.

Yes they are put in jail. But who bears the cost of extra policing, court time, jail space? The city does. So the city is seeking reparation from the cost incurred.

> But who bears the cost of extra policing, court time, jail space?

Does that really exceed the cost damage done if they're left to keep on stealing/crashing cars? At some point they'll kill someone, and the 'cash value of a human life' question will come up.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#356

Post by mlazos » Fri, May 12, 2023, 10:50 PM UTC

Convolutional wrote: post #192

mlazos wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree the US incarcerates too many people, does the comparison to China make sense? How can we trust their numbers especially when they disappear people.

Well don't trust China's numbers, and compare the US incarceration rate to those of any industrialized country's numbers that you do trust.

Yeah I mean we also have more crime too, so I feel like we’d need to normalize this somehow with like incarcerated/crime rate or something. Given I think nonviolent offenses should be less severely punished than they are today.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#357

Post by HPsquared » Fri, May 12, 2023, 10:52 PM UTC

plagiarist wrote: post #334

Natsu wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just kind of ignores how one of those things wouldn't even be a problem without the other.

True, if the locks were perfect then nobody would be stealing cars.

They would first steal the keys, then the cars. That's actually more dangerous as it involves robbery or burglary. In a way it's better that the cars are easy to steal. Similarly, in bad areas some people leave their cars unlocked so that instead of breaking a window to rummage around inside, thieves can simply open the door.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#358

Post by [deleted] » Fri, May 12, 2023, 10:53 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #111

aardvarkr wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here’s the link that I posted above with data showing the before and after. It’s quite stark just how big of a spike there has been in theft. https://usafacts.org/data-projects/car-thefts

Not exactly the data I was looking for. This is very niche and not from a more comprehensive level. However, the city level data seems to show that some cities are not seeing a higher spike, but others are. Without any real analysis, this seems to indicate that there are other factors at play than simply Kias being easier to steal.

[deleted]

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#359

Post by HPsquared » Fri, May 12, 2023, 10:54 PM UTC

olyjohn wrote: post #332

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Immobilisers have been mandatory in all new cars sold in Germany since 1 January 1998, in the United Kingdom since 1 October 1998, in Finland since 1998, in Australia since 2001 and in Canada since 2007." (Wikipedia)

So it's the government's fault for not making them mandatory in the US. Better sue the federal government too.

They do have a lot more money than Kia (though probably not in net worth terms)

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#360

Post by mh- » Fri, May 12, 2023, 10:54 PM UTC

aardvarkr wrote: post #18

aardvarkr wrote: post #8

Lots of comments that didn’t read the article so here’s a good excerpt on why there’s a lawsuit. Baltimore’s lawsuit says the companies “failed to keep up with industry standards,” and claim it was a result of business decisions made to reduce costs and boost profits “notwithstanding decades of academic literature and research supporting the deterrent effects” of anti-theft technology. “The dramatically increased rat…

It’s also worth noting that this was all started with a viral TikTok video showing Hire ridiculously easy it is to steal a Kia/Hyundai is. Here’s a collection of graphs showing the before and after of theft data in major cities. https://usafacts.org/data-projects/car-thefts

Am I missing something, or did they not do anything to adjust for how many Kias/Hyundais are in those cities?

That could explain why some cities saw much bigger spikes than others - or it might not! Feels sloppy.

edit: this obviously doesn't negate your point, there's clearly an enormous spike. It's just weird since the article took the time to break it down by city, and to call attention to some cities seeing larger spikes than others.