Apple brings Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro to iPad • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple brings Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro to iPad

#501

Post by zamadatix » Tue, May 09, 2023, 9:57 PM UTC

oneplane wrote: post #435

Someone1234 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iOS devices don't support downloading specific versions of apps, and you cannot sideload. Apple has made this model impossible on iOS.

That technical method isn't the only way to implement this business method, and a number of existing apps are doing this quite successfully already. So this both already exists, and works. As for 'side loading', it's somewhat possible, but even if it was available by default it would be messy for most customers -- they already have trouble with what's currently available. Perhaps some sort of in-app store would make…

The other two ways I've seen are committing to lifetime bugfixes but maintaining a feature lock based on last license renewal or releasing a separate app per release. The first is actually a different model but if you're alright with it from the developer side then it's very similar from the user's perspective. The second is either different or the same depending on how it's implemented. 2a is commit to upgrading these apps for life the same as the first method, at which point it largely turns into a worse option to both sides. 2b is to not commit to lifetime updates, at which point it's not really lifetime as much as "until Apple removes it from the App Store and you need to download it on a new device".

Based on the wording comment it sounds like there may be additional ways I haven't seen but you didn't really say what they were as much as dismiss the point assuming everyone knew what apps or release models you are familiar with.

I agree an in App Store solution like the one you describe would be the preferred answer for most users. Sideloading is more useful as a catch-all for anything Apple doesn't have a good first party answer for. Once non policy related use cases for the sideloading exist it's going to be easier for most to have a first party solution for those use cases.

Re: Apple brings Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro to iPad

#502

Post by Affric » Tue, May 09, 2023, 9:59 PM UTC

Toutouxc wrote: post #354

grishka wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still strange that apps that work fully locally and thus don't entail any running costs are a subscription. Adobe did it first but they at least threw in some cloud stuff (that no one uses) to try to justify the subscription.

How is that strange? What about maintenance and regular updates?

What is the difference between maintenance and regular updates? If I for software it should be complete, correct, and secure.

No new features? Fair enough.

Re: Apple brings Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro to iPad

#503

Post by jasomill » Tue, May 09, 2023, 10:01 PM UTC

jmmcd wrote: post #419

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real musicians type on a midi keyboard. I mean their text doesn't make sense because their alphabet has only seven letters, but still. (I jest!)

Well, you have 7 letters, but you can also use the black keys for keyboard shortcuts.

And pedals! I've half-seriously considered experimenting with an expression pedal as a vertical scroll controller for desktop applications, using a second pedal to switch between relative (pedal position relative to center → scroll velocity, zero movement when pedal position is centered) and absolute (pedal position → page position, zero movement unless pedal position changes) modes.

For wide multicolumn IDE/text-editor layouts, spatially-mapped fader banks and/or organ drawbars might also make useful scrollers.

Re: Apple brings Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro to iPad

#504

Post by threeseed » Tue, May 09, 2023, 10:03 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #389

ianlevesque wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn’t enough to enable this business model.

It would be simple enough (yes I know I sound like a product manager” to add another rule to allow someone to download the last version they are eligible for. Apple keeps all of the previous versions of apps. They use to be available via a simple url.

There is a major update to iOS every single year and many older application simply wouldn't run.

Bad experience for users, developers and Apple.

Re: Apple brings Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro to iPad

#505

Post by l33tman » Tue, May 09, 2023, 10:03 PM UTC

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #148

jonhohle wrote: post #139

Subscription! Even Apple has fallen. This is really disappointing.

$5/mo for top of the line software that will continue to get updates + new features + bug fixes is "really disappointing"?

Subscription models for creative software is the worst thing in the industry. 10 years down the line when you get a blast of nostalgia and you want to open a couple of songs you wrote, and you even have the laptop in a drawer. OH! None of my programs work anymore.

It's a fine model if both models are available. You might spend some $ for some months to try it out, then you decide to buy it. But what they really want is for you to never ever stop paying, because you have a bunch of files and works you did that you "just might" have to open soon so you might as well keep the sub running...

Re: Apple brings Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro to iPad

#506

Post by threeseed » Tue, May 09, 2023, 10:05 PM UTC

asddubs wrote: post #375

rtkwe wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could approximate it with extensive feature flagging to disable/hide new features for people with old "versions" of the app.

sounds like a nightmare and a half given enough time.

Major websites such as Airbnb have dozens to hundreds of feature flags which they use to run A/B experiments.

And so there is plenty of software available e.g. LaunchDarkly to help simplify the process.

Re: Apple brings Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro to iPad

#507

Post by threeseed » Tue, May 09, 2023, 10:10 PM UTC

oneplane wrote: post #435

Someone1234 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iOS devices don't support downloading specific versions of apps, and you cannot sideload. Apple has made this model impossible on iOS.

That technical method isn't the only way to implement this business method, and a number of existing apps are doing this quite successfully already. So this both already exists, and works. As for 'side loading', it's somewhat possible, but even if it was available by default it would be messy for most customers -- they already have trouble with what's currently available. Perhaps some sort of in-app store would make…

What you've described is more complex than managing one app with feature flags.

And it's still undetermined whether Apple would be required to host your app on their App Store once you've decided to run your own store. Which means you would be losing a major distribution channel.

Re: Apple brings Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro to iPad

#508

Post by H1Supreme » Tue, May 09, 2023, 10:12 PM UTC

st3fan wrote: post #476

H1Supreme wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what the fallout will look like if they make Logic on the desktop subscription based. The DAW / audio plugin community at large have resisted subscriptions quite ferociously. And considering how competitive the space is, I could see a lot of people jumping ship based on this alone.

Jump ship to what exactly? A product that costs less than one Frappuccino per month?

One of the numerous other DAW's on the market? It's less about the cost, and more about the fact that it's a subscription.

If I had a subscription for every company that I own audio plugins from, I'd pull my hair out.

Re: Apple brings Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro to iPad

#509

Post by recursive » Tue, May 09, 2023, 10:41 PM UTC

LegitShady wrote: post #486

recursive wrote: post #96

Allegedly this supports audio interfaces, so I presume it's supposed to able to be used for recording. What kind of latency can be achieved by ipad hardware? This announcement is mysteriously quiet about that.

iPad already supported class compliant audio interfaces.

Interesting fact, although it also doesn't provide any information about latency.

Re: Apple brings Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro to iPad

#510

Post by 76SlashDolphin » Tue, May 09, 2023, 10:42 PM UTC

TheKarateKid wrote: post #487

grishka wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happened with people using one single version of something for 10 years? If there's a major update, it's a separate product that's a paid upgrade. We've had that figured out since the 90s. And quality software doesn't need maintenance.

FCP and Logic are highly optimized for Apple's CPU and GPUs. They fully utilize all cores and operate in a way that won't bring the general OS to a grinding halt if you're encoding in the background. Additionally, Apple updates these to provide all the latest video and audio encoding available on their devices. Doing all of this requires significant engineering and licensing (Dolby) that comes at a cost.

Sure but none of that should fall under "maintenance". Apple makes a new SoC and needs to optimize Logic for it? Fine, issue a paid upgrade but make it optional since it has 0 impact on my M1 Mac. They add a new feature like Dolby support? Again, make the update optional if it's paid since a lot of people (me incl) don't care about it. The entire point is to not cut off access to one's offline workflow if money is tight which is absolutely possible for tools like Logic and FinalCut.