Apple brings Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro to iPad • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple brings Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro to iPad

#451

Post by gehsty » Tue, May 09, 2023, 7:58 PM UTC

rcarr wrote: post #422

gehsty wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we’ve heard the exact same argument about phones with keyboards, large phones, tablets and web apps (that if apple doesn’t do X they will get left behind, or if Apple doesn’t do Y soon enough they will get left behind), apple has not been left behind. I don’t think the goggles or ‘pro iPad’ will be any different. Apple will release when they are ready and likely they’ll do very well.

Maybe. But I've been buying Apple for over a decade and this is the first year I've considered migrating off the ecosystem. I think AR glasses (not goggles) are going to be the defining hardware tech of the decade and I can see them becoming ubiquitous. If they're planning on releasing the goggles at the rumoured price point ($1500 - $3000) I think people might be tempted to jump ship.

Just feels like apple has to much going for them:

- access to custom silicon and potentially display technology ahead of what is available to competitors

- huge amount of money and resources to throw at this (buying up supply chain for key components etc)

- initial devices being iPhone / iPad / Mac accessories will give them a route to market & access to developers

I just don’t see how anyone else gets a look in.

Re: Apple brings Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro to iPad

#452

Post by specialist » Tue, May 09, 2023, 7:59 PM UTC

charcircuit wrote: post #239

tm-guimaraes wrote: post #232

More companies should just adopt Jetbrains model. Month subscription available, but by paying the annual subscription you get a perpetual license for the last release covered by your purchase, which makes an annual subscription pretty much the same as "buy with 1 year of updates".

In the jetbrains you only get a perpetual license for the current version. You lose the year of updates. Also why should companies do that? They could be leaving money on the table as people can continue to gain value from the perpetual version without you getting any compensation for that value. Also you now have to deal wind a fragmented user base on different versions. And the user community has to dear with not e…

Humans aren't rational.

Nordstrom's liberal return policy increased sales. Probably by mooting the fear of buyer's remorse. Their policy definitely wasn't motivated by altruism.

Maybe something similar is happening with Jetbrains.

I continue to pay yearly for Ultimate, even though I only use vanilla IntelliJ, and sometimes not for years. Why? I have no idea.

I usually cancel subscriptions without hestitaion. Somehow the Jetbrains license doesn't piss me off and I'm content knowing I could cancel without too much inconvenience, should I choose.

Whatever the case, I'm certain they validated their current license maximizes revenue.

Re: Apple brings Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro to iPad

#453

Post by pantulis » Tue, May 09, 2023, 8:04 PM UTC

spacephysics wrote: post #35

nottorp wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You like losing access when you cancel the subscription? Or when an older device is cut off from the app store?

As many readers here probably understand from first hand experience, software isn’t a final product (typically). The majority of software requires maintenance and any ongoing feature updates have a continual cost on the company. If they asked for a subscription and said, no more updates after tomorrow, then sure that’s Bs. But especially for something like Final Cut, you’ll get continual updates and feature improveme…

"As many readers here probably understand from first hand experience, software isn’t a final product (typically)."

But then Logic Pro for the mac has been a one time purchase for me since Logic Pro X and has been religiously updated every year with tons of new content and features. Probably to empower Mac sales, which is a boost that they feel the iPad does not need.

Re: Apple brings Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro to iPad

#454

Post by KerrAvon » Tue, May 09, 2023, 8:06 PM UTC

IAmGraydon wrote: post #379

clint wrote: post #167

[flagged]

I've been writing and recording music for 25 years. I wouldn't do it on an iPad if the app paid me. If there was ever a job that requires a mouse and multiple screens even more than coding and design, it's audio engineering. Try editing a piano roll with thousands of MIDI notes, adjusting thousands of automation points and fine tuning EQ settings on a touchscreen. The experience is terrible, and no software can fix t…

But you’re not limited to the touchscreen. The iPad has excellent external mouse support. I’m using Apple’s folio keyboard/trackpad combo to type this right now, but any USB or Bluetooth mouse will work. Even gaming mice work.

If you don’t need a traditional cursor, you can just also use an Apple Pencil for precise pointing needs such as piano roll editing.

Re: Apple brings Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro to iPad

#455

Post by KerrAvon » Tue, May 09, 2023, 8:11 PM UTC

goblin89 wrote: post #431

IAmGraydon wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been writing and recording music for 25 years. I wouldn't do it on an iPad if the app paid me. If there was ever a job that requires a mouse and multiple screens even more than coding and design, it's audio engineering. Try editing a piano roll with thousands of MIDI notes, adjusting thousands of automation points and fine tuning EQ settings on a touchscreen. The experience is terrible, and no software can fix t…

As a long time electronic music producer, I make sure once installed my primary software is never updated as a rule[0]. My flow doesn’t make bouncing everything to audio feasible and there is nothing worse than opening a project you have worked on for a few months to find that it sounds… different. Counter-intuitively, learning to predict and deal with crashes and working around known bugs on the fly is way easier th…

This is a reasonable concern; this would be worth raising to Apple if you have a channel to do so. Being able to pin apps to specific versions may indeed be a requirement if your livelihood depends on their stability.

Re: Apple brings Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro to iPad

#456

Post by efields » Tue, May 09, 2023, 8:15 PM UTC

jahnu wrote: post #49

dagmx wrote: post #11

Having a full DAW on the go is a killer feature imho. The promise has been there since stuff like 8tracks on the iPhone 3G, and various Audio Units already on iOS. But I’ve always found the workflow very limiting or clunky. (Edit: I’m a Logic Pro user on macOS so my comments reflect getting things into that specifically) The divide from putting down an idea when it hits, to working it into something, has always been…

As developers of professional audio plugins this is very exciting for us. The horsepower is there and the touch interface allows for some really cool possibilities. We already enjoy using AUM and Cubasis, but will be very interested to see if support for pro hardware improves now on iPad.

Do you have any insight on why bigger companies like Arturia don’t bring more of their VSTs and plugins to iOS?

I’m a hobbyist music maker and I vastly prefer AUM on my iPad to working in GarageBand (logic is far beyond my needs). I just want more of the desktop plugin ecosystem to trickle down.

Re: Apple brings Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro to iPad

#457

Post by efields » Tue, May 09, 2023, 8:22 PM UTC

Now one of the hardware companies needs to make a 2+/in/out digital audio interface _and_ usb c hub. Who needs this? The pro amateurs like me. I have a MiniFuse2 attached to a dongle with a synth and sometimes drum machine in there and it’s getting kind of wirey. It’s not as backpack friendly as it could be.

Re: Apple brings Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro to iPad

#458

Post by philsnow » Tue, May 09, 2023, 8:26 PM UTC

softfalcon wrote: post #359

Slow_Hand wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While Logic doesn't feature this yet, the closest analog I know of is the Ableton Link protocol which allows users on a network to synchronize their master clock with other users across any app that supports it (Ableton, Pro Tools, Korg sequencers, etc). While simple and meant more of a collaborative feature, this is a tremendously helpful feature that allows people to jump right in to a music-making session and ensu…

How does this handle latency of data transfer? I have worked with professional musicians and the delay of even 10ms across the stage annoys them. I am trying to envision how syncing DAW's through the network could possibly avoid what easily amounts to more than 20ms of delay back and forth between devices. Is this just not an issue for digital music production? It's a massive issue for live music and in-ear-monitors…

I'm not claiming that it uses NTP, but:

> NTP can usually maintain time to within tens of milliseconds over the public Internet, and can achieve better than one millisecond accuracy in local area networks under ideal conditions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Time_Protocol#Clock_sy...

The algorithm is more sensitive to variance than latency, but over a LAN variance is usually pretty okay. Wifi can be a lot worse, though, especially if there are a lot of clients.

Re: Apple brings Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro to iPad

#459

Post by astrange » Tue, May 09, 2023, 8:30 PM UTC

eurekin wrote: post #166

g105b wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The software will not receive updates forever. The Ipad will not receive updates forever. One day, this software will force the user to buy more Apple devices to continue using it.

Adobe subscriptions are nice examples of bad management, no long standing significant bug was fixed and they mostly seem to add toys around the fringes (cloud based neural filters for example)

Adobe can't ever change any of their old filters for compatibility reasons (or because they believe they're "not really broken".)

Approximately all the math in Photoshop is wrong because it's not done in linear colorspace, the image resizing algorithms were bad for 1980, etc, but they can't change them.

Lightroom introduced a new better ML demosaic for raw photos, but they can't just replace the old one, instead it's a different "enhance photo" option.

Re: Apple brings Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro to iPad

#460

Post by 015a » Tue, May 09, 2023, 8:30 PM UTC

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #148

jonhohle wrote: post #139

Subscription! Even Apple has fallen. This is really disappointing.

$5/mo for top of the line software that will continue to get updates + new features + bug fixes is "really disappointing"?

If there's anyone who may take issue with your assertion that the software will continue to get updates and new features and bug fixes, I think it would coincidentally be Logic MacOS users. FCPX still gets some good attention, but Logic; the good things you could say about it are that it still works how it has, and you don't have to pay a subscription fee.

If a subscription fee is what it takes to get some attention then so be it; $5/mo is certainly reasonable. But I wouldn't assert it as a foregone conclusion.