141–150 of 161 posts
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If I have to wait in line, I do not tip.
As a programmer, I threw an exception here. If you have to wait in line to be seated for table service, what do you do?
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I think you're misinterpreting GP's intention. People generally don't want the tips to be gone so that they pay less. People want the tips to be included in the price so that when they buy something they know how much they're paying. In the current system restauranteurs skimp on wages because they know workers make up for it with tips and hence are willing to work for dirt-cheap wages. But it's not like the restauran…
> ... supply and demand is still determined by how much patrons pay in total. If they charge more up front (along with everyone else), and just give a larger portion to workers, they'll still make the same amount of money. I don't think I agree with this. I believe it's a form of psychological manipulation where you get a foot in the door by offering lower upfront prices and then guilt people into paying more. Same r…
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As a programmer, I threw an exception here. If you have to wait in line to be seated for table service, what do you do?
A proper restaurant will have a literal waiter (the name of the job comes from that) ask you to be seated reasonably quickly anyway. And if it's overfilled, inform you of that.
No, it comes from servants waiting for requests from their employers (“waiting on” their employers), not from them optimizing the experience of customers waiting in line.
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This is where my own internal rubric for tipping starts to break down. The delineation between "sat at a table and got service", and "payed at a counter to be handed something prepared" has a middle grey area for things that are made on-demand for me, by someone behind the counter, to my specification. - In your Starbucks example if they grab a pre-bottle something is that service? - Pulling a latte from a latte mach…
Decision tree: * Did you sit at a table and a waiter/waitress took your order, then the waiter/waitress brought the food to you, which you ate at the table, while the waiter attended to your needs? Then you leave a tip * Else: Then you don't leave a tip
Tips are for table service. That's it. When you go to Starbucks, ask for a product, then make payment for that product, and the little POS machine basically says "hey, can we have extra money?" it's systematized panhandling.
Do you not tip for a haircut?
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As a programmer, I threw an exception here. If you have to wait in line to be seated for table service, what do you do?
Well then the tip depends on quality of (eventual) service no? And I'd even say one of the determinants of service quality would be how long you had to wait in line.
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While I agree with the thrust of your comment, I don't think that's a solution to tipping - the same dynamic would still exist, because it's effectively a form of differentiated pricing based on how much you can guilt each customer.
I don't understand. Minimum wage as a reasonable price would eliminate tipping altogether in most low-end to medium rate restaurants - the means through which they guilt the customer would be eliminated. People would still try, and it would take a while for the culture to dissipate entirely, but most people would eventually realize there would be no reason to tip and so wouldn't.
It would sure be nice if we could snap our fingers and "stop worker exploitation". But throwing an idyllic state of affairs out as a "solution" to reject a concrete idea that might actually move us towards a better place is counterproductive.
As pointed out elsewhere in this thread, if you ask restaurant workers about tipping many actually like it because good servers at good restaurants apparently do end up making a decent wage. So like a lot of things, the tiny sliver of shining meritocracy ends up carrying water for an overall oppressive dynamic. Which is why I think some transparency into what exactly a "tip" means in any given context would go a long way - the various ways business owners divert tips is itself a very direct form of worker exploitation.
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They're against the idea because a world where they get that pay consistently instead of by tips seems fictional. People who advocate for getting rid of tipping sound like they're trying to take away a good chunk of their income. Plus, instead of thinking about potentially low tipping periods and how averages work, they think about missing out on that sweet $300 tip they might make at some point if they get lucky.
Respectfully, I would disagree. If you leave loose change in a Parisian bar, the waiter will run after you on the street that you forgot your money. No-tip culture absolutaly can work, look at France and Japan, among many others. Still they are renowned for their restaurant culture.
Until systemic changes are implemented, I think the amount people tip should not be tied to service received to avoid bias (i.e. if you generally tip restaurant servers 20%, then tip all servers 20% and if you receive better or worse service do not tip more or less, but rather change the frequency that you are a patron). For tips requested for non-service interactions (e.g. self-checkouts), it is probably better not to tip so that it does not proliferate the problem.
[1] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/05/black-restaurant-workers-rec...
[2] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/20/dining/danny-meyer-no-tip...
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Well then the tip depends on quality of (eventual) service no? And I'd even say one of the determinants of service quality would be how long you had to wait in line.
on top of most servers aren't paid real minimum wage. so there's a big difference between minimum wage and tipped minimum wage.