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Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

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Re: Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

#121

Post by disruptiveink »

catiopatio wrote: post #108
disruptiveink wrote: post #71

As a non-US citizen/resident, I can't wait for Americans to finally riot against tipping, just so they stop doing it abroad. A shame that it had to take comical proportions domestically for people to start questioning it. Americans tipping abroad while on holidays ruins service for everyone that isn't American – as a non-American you are guaranteed to get worse service than a American in touristy places (and sometime…

I’ve never tipped 20% in places without a tipping culture, but I must admit your comment makes me think I should — at least, in the places where a tip would not be considered insulting. I tip in the US to receive better service. If it’s not considered rude to tip, and it results in better service, why wouldn’t I do that?

You won't get better service – that's my point, the next guy who sounds like you will. If people who look and speak like you tip disproportionately, everyone else that looks and speaks that way will get great service by default, even if they don't tip, at expense of everyone else now getting bad service.

This of course doesn't apply if you are a regular, feel free to do whatever you want. The staff will treat you well because it's you, not because of the stereotype your accent implies.

Re: Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

#122

Post by catiopatio »

disruptiveink wrote: post #115
yowzadave wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hospitality obviously optimises for being extra nice to Americans and treat everyone else with apathy Maybe this is how the tipping practice got started in the first place?

Ignoring for a moment the 20% premium, the issue is that in the US, (mostly) everyone is American. Unless you're a regular, hospitality has no way of telling whether you're a good tipper or a bad tipper. There may be "tells" or "feelings", but that's the extent of it. So when you walk into a place, you're going to get the same service as the next guy. Your logic may track for regulars (a repeat customer may tip to ge…

> I obviously can't state "I'm going to tip you 20%!" at the beginning of the service – I'd look like a deranged person.

When I’m at smaller restaurant where the staff doesn’t know me well, and want to signal “I’m going to tip you well!”, I’ll often get an expensive drink at the bar beforehand and massively overtip.

The staff obviously talks to each other, and in my non-scientific study, this fairly consistently results in a better service outcome.

Re: Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

#123

Post by hotpotamus »

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #82
maerF0x0 wrote: post #26

I want to see an end to tipping in America. I also want to see servers paid at least a living wage, and the excellent ones to earn more (perhaps by having to move upscale where wages ought to be higher reflecting more skill and effort) Is there a viable path forward? Is there some way I can support it happening?

It’s interesting we single out servers as the ones who must be paid a “living wage” in America. Why them in particular? It’s not like restaurants are providing some crucial service to America. I’m fine allowing restaurants to figure out their compensation and pricing without offloading it onto me.

Servers are singled out in wage laws.

Re: Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

#124

Post by PrimeMcFly »

mindslight wrote: post #119
PrimeMcFly wrote: post #105

Tipping is a backwards system, honestly. No real minimum wage laws, so pass what should be the employer cost on to the customer? It's even crappier for workers when bosses dictate that tips should be pooled or whatever. Honestly it should be more regulated and the minimum wage should be ate least reasonable.

> It's even crappier for workers when bosses dictate that tips should be pooled or whatever. Your comment made me think - I wonder if a way of reigning in this weaponization of tipping culture would be state laws for transparency of where tips actually go. Let's say anywhere that solicits tips must clearly post how that money is divided up (on the menu, tip jar, POS terminal, prominent signs, etc). Whether it all goe…

I agree with you that tipping transparency would be good, but honestly they should just raise the minimum wage and stop worker exploitation, that's a much better solution.

Re: Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

#125

Post by SoftTalker »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #107
SoftTalker wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The day a robot brings my food to the table is the day I stop eating at restaurants.

Can you tell us why? Does convenience, common meeting space, or the food taste/quality not draw you as well?

I like interacting with people, not machines, in that sort of environment. Most of the experience I enjoy at a restaurant is the service. I can make better food at home, in most cases.

Re: Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

#126

Post by [deleted] »

disruptiveink wrote: post #121
catiopatio wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve never tipped 20% in places without a tipping culture, but I must admit your comment makes me think I should — at least, in the places where a tip would not be considered insulting. I tip in the US to receive better service. If it’s not considered rude to tip, and it results in better service, why wouldn’t I do that?

You won't get better service – that's my point, the next guy who sounds like you will. If people who look and speak like you tip disproportionately, everyone else that looks and speaks that way will get great service by default, even if they don't tip, at expense of everyone else now getting bad service. This of course doesn't apply if you are a regular, feel free to do whatever you want. The staff will treat you wel…

[deleted]

Re: Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

#127

Post by polygamous_bat »

yongjik wrote: post #120
Night_Thastus wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're looking at it a bit backwards. This is not "employees are greedy, want money for nothing". This is a case of "employees barely paid enough to get food each week, survive off tips". People forget that minimum wage comes out to around $15k a year. Even $15 an hour is only $30k. In almost all of the country, that's not enough for the cheapest rent, upkeep on a cheap car, food, taxes and other bills. Excessive tip…

I think you're misinterpreting GP's intention. People generally don't want the tips to be gone so that they pay less. People want the tips to be included in the price so that when they buy something they know how much they're paying. In the current system restauranteurs skimp on wages because they know workers make up for it with tips and hence are willing to work for dirt-cheap wages. But it's not like the restauran…

> ... supply and demand is still determined by how much patrons pay in total. If they charge more up front (along with everyone else), and just give a larger portion to workers, they'll still make the same amount of money.

I don't think I agree with this. I believe it's a form of psychological manipulation where you get a foot in the door by offering lower upfront prices and then guilt people into paying more. Same reason why car dealerships try to sell you on a million add-ons.

Re: Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

#128

Post by ricardobayes »

polski-g wrote: post #58
prottog wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always understood the rule as unless there's food being brought to you at a table with tableside service, you are not to tip. Feel free not to leave the $10 next time for your takeout order.

If I have to wait in line, I do not tip.

As a programmer, I threw an exception here. If you have to wait in line to be seated for table service, what do you do?

Re: Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

#129

Post by justinator »

mnd999 wrote: post #6
justinator wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I don’t see the link. YC are not giving out tips. They are expecting a return.

They are expecting a return across all investments, but most will be failures.

Re: Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

#130

Post by justinator »

ye-olde-sysrq wrote: post #8
justinator wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What? This seems like a complete non-sequitur. How is VC investing in nascent companies - the primordial act of capital formation - comparable to tipping (or not) someone at a self-checkout?

The comparison is asking for a tip before service; which isn't TOO far off from wanting a profit before an idea proves itself in the market. Except the latter is about a dollar; while the latter is tens of thousands.
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