Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’ • Hacker News Board

Re: Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

#101

Post by Fernicia » Mon, May 08, 2023, 3:26 PM UTC

Night_Thastus wrote: post #59

corey_moncure wrote: post #34

I took my wife out to a fancy steakhouse over the weekend and remembered what "service" is supposed to be. Our waiter poured my wine, cut up our steak table side and served us, cracked pepper over our salad, went above and beyond in every way to ensure that we were comfortable and satisfied. I gladly tipped him 20% on $300 and would do so again. On the other hand, I left $10 on top of a $50 takeout order at a local I…

You're looking at it a bit backwards. This is not "employees are greedy, want money for nothing". This is a case of "employees barely paid enough to get food each week, survive off tips". People forget that minimum wage comes out to around $15k a year. Even $15 an hour is only $30k. In almost all of the country, that's not enough for the cheapest rent, upkeep on a cheap car, food, taxes and other bills. Excessive tip…

Why is it then that we leave the greatest tips at the fanciest restaurants? Shouldn't it be reversed? We leave $5 tips at diners but we leave $100+ tips at Michelin star restaurants.

Re: Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

#102

Post by yowzadave » Mon, May 08, 2023, 3:27 PM UTC

disruptiveink wrote: post #71

As a non-US citizen/resident, I can't wait for Americans to finally riot against tipping, just so they stop doing it abroad. A shame that it had to take comical proportions domestically for people to start questioning it. Americans tipping abroad while on holidays ruins service for everyone that isn't American – as a non-American you are guaranteed to get worse service than a American in touristy places (and sometime…

> hospitality obviously optimises for being extra nice to Americans and treat everyone else with apathy

Maybe this is how the tipping practice got started in the first place?

Re: Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

#103

Post by Broken_Hippo » Mon, May 08, 2023, 3:27 PM UTC

harshalizee wrote: post #89

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, we know that most wait staff are paid far less than minimum wage. The expectation is that tips will make up for the difference. You simply didn't pay for it all. It has been like this for literal decades.

No that's not how it works. If the tips don't work out to minimum wage, the employer pays the difference. That's how it is in all the states. Some cities, like Seattle, has a minimum wage at $15 for wait staff. So tipping is on top of that.

The only thing you can count on is that the place pays the federal minimum wage and that legally, the place is supposed to make up tips. Tips make wage theft really easy for the employer.

Most places aren't Seattle. Most states and cities aren't setting higher minimum wages for wait staff, and most aren't putting the minimum on par with other folks. As you travel through the country, you probably aren't going to see if the folks in the area are paid well or see how much of a jerk you are for not tipping in a country that expects it instead of including wages in the price of goods.

Re: Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

#104

Post by maerF0x0 » Mon, May 08, 2023, 3:27 PM UTC

idiotsecant wrote: post #68

maerF0x0 wrote: post #26

I want to see an end to tipping in America. I also want to see servers paid at least a living wage, and the excellent ones to earn more (perhaps by having to move upscale where wages ought to be higher reflecting more skill and effort) Is there a viable path forward? Is there some way I can support it happening?

Yes, raise the minimum wage to something that a person can live on.

I could get behind that with a carveout for inexperienced folks and qualified businesses which essentially are very small businesses that are provably low profit (ie the owners/share holders are not seeing massive return).

Really roughly the idea being:

Minimum wage is now = ((Median 1bed room monthly Rent in zipcode)*.3333) / 160 and will be updated annually.

(.3333 of income must pay for a 1 bedroom house)

If you're under 18 and have less than 1 year's experience you can accept earning 50% of minimum wage to get the experience.

If your business has less than $500k of revenue, and no one is paid more than 2x anyone else. Then you can pay as low as 50% of minimum wage.

I'm curious to hear from others how such a system would break?

Re: Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

#105

Post by PrimeMcFly » Mon, May 08, 2023, 3:27 PM UTC

Tipping is a backwards system, honestly.

No real minimum wage laws, so pass what should be the employer cost on to the customer?

It's even crappier for workers when bosses dictate that tips should be pooled or whatever.

Honestly it should be more regulated and the minimum wage should be ate least reasonable.

Re: Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

#106

Post by PrimeMcFly » Mon, May 08, 2023, 3:28 PM UTC

doublepg23 wrote: post #99

Night_Thastus wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're looking at it a bit backwards. This is not "employees are greedy, want money for nothing". This is a case of "employees barely paid enough to get food each week, survive off tips". People forget that minimum wage comes out to around $15k a year. Even $15 an hour is only $30k. In almost all of the country, that's not enough for the cheapest rent, upkeep on a cheap car, food, taxes and other bills. Excessive tip…

> Excessive tips are the only way a lot of people working in the service industry survive at all. When the topic comes up on Reddit the people overwhelmingly against getting rid of tipping are waiters. Heck, bartenders are even more vehemently against the idea.

It's because they don't know any better.

Re: Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

#107

Post by maerF0x0 » Mon, May 08, 2023, 3:28 PM UTC

SoftTalker wrote: post #97

lastofthemojito wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there a viable path forward? That's the tough part. The places that I'm familiar with that experimented with no-tipping ended up reverting back to the standard model. With tipping, good waiters at good restaurants can make solid money - probably more than they'd be paid in a no-tipping model. So they quit and get a different job with tips, and the back of the house makes a bit more money, but then overall busine…

The day a robot brings my food to the table is the day I stop eating at restaurants.

Can you tell us why? Does convenience, common meeting space, or the food taste/quality not draw you as well?

Re: Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

#108

Post by catiopatio » Mon, May 08, 2023, 3:29 PM UTC

disruptiveink wrote: post #71

As a non-US citizen/resident, I can't wait for Americans to finally riot against tipping, just so they stop doing it abroad. A shame that it had to take comical proportions domestically for people to start questioning it. Americans tipping abroad while on holidays ruins service for everyone that isn't American – as a non-American you are guaranteed to get worse service than a American in touristy places (and sometime…

I’ve never tipped 20% in places without a tipping culture, but I must admit your comment makes me think I should — at least, in the places where a tip would not be considered insulting.

I tip in the US to receive better service. If it’s not considered rude to tip, and it results in better service, why wouldn’t I do that?

Re: Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

#109

Post by Fernicia » Mon, May 08, 2023, 3:30 PM UTC

ipnon wrote: post #92

Fernicia wrote: post #76

Tipping in the U.S. is such a travesty. This is painfully apparent in bars. Compared with, say, Ireland where a barman can take multiple orders at once, batch them, then quickly take payment via a single contactless tap. In the U.S. you have to "open a tab", the bartender has to add drinks to your tab, then when you want to pay, the bartender has to print off the tab, have you sign it, do mental maths, and finally wr…

Which apps do the bars in Ireland use for payment?

It's just a contactless card machine. You can use apple pay, google pay, your card's NFC chip. Anything works.

Re: Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

#110

Post by SoftTalker » Mon, May 08, 2023, 3:30 PM UTC

harshalizee wrote: post #89

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, we know that most wait staff are paid far less than minimum wage. The expectation is that tips will make up for the difference. You simply didn't pay for it all. It has been like this for literal decades.

No that's not how it works. If the tips don't work out to minimum wage, the employer pays the difference. That's how it is in all the states. Some cities, like Seattle, has a minimum wage at $15 for wait staff. So tipping is on top of that.

That's interesting. Did Seattle consider banning tipping also when they raised the minimum wage for wait staff?

It's probably impossible to ban someone voluntarily leaving extra money on the table.