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EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

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Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#791

Post by hef19898 »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #655
NickBusey wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed for the claim that governments enforce standards for screws. Maybe in the stuff they buy, but that’s not the same thing.

Agreed. One visit to an industrial fastener store will let you know that there is no such thing as a standard screw/bolt. Even metric Mx machine screws (which are the closest thing I can think of to a standard) have 4 different common pitches, and you can have them custom made to ANY pitch.

And a look in enineering literature and norms, EN for example, woupd tell you thatvall those different screw types, from heads and pitches to strength and surface treatment, are, in fact, stabdardized and normed.

And of course you can get custom parts for everything. Those are, as the name implies, custom and not standard.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#792

Post by anigbrowl »

aetherson wrote: post #773
anigbrowl wrote: post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or every one time they successfully push a company to do something correct -- but ultimately trivial, like this thing -- there are going to be 10 cases where some bureaucrat makes a bad decision This is a truism, but does it have any basis in reality? Certainly, if every manufacturer were forced to use USB-C for everything it could lead to an innovation problem, but I don't think makers of new products are forbidden…

Have you ever, like, actually interacted with a bureaucracy? I don't mean a governmental one, necessarily. An even mid-sized company's HR department, let's say. I was just trying to get a medical evaluation for my son: I called them and they spent 10 minutes on the phone with me explaining that they were going to send me four emails before they had a 30 minute call with me before they were going to do the actual eval…

Of course. Some of them are awful and some of them are fine. You might as well reason that 'Apple is a corporation; corporations are essentially large bureaucracies; therefore anything produced by Apple will embody all the flaws of bureaucracy.' And indeed many people make arguments like this here on HN daily, arguing that large companies can't innovate because they're simply not agile enough.

It's not that bureaucracies can't be terrible, they absolutely can. But it's overly simplistic to argue that they're constitutionally terrible by virtue of merely existing.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#793

Post by robertlagrant »

Symbiote wrote: post #747
robertlagrant wrote: post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wasn't legislation or enforcement.

That is the European way. Ask nicely first, push a little harder, threaten, then finally pass a law if the result hasn't been achieved. You will note everyone except Apple did what the EU wanted early in this process.

I do note that. I'm not sure how that relates, though.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#794

Post by zamnos »

nullfield wrote: post #699
dghlsakjg wrote: post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who designs device, I would HATE having to use a proprietary connector/device/protocol. I'm small time, so maybe engineering departments at major companies see it differently. Right now I can design a product that uses one of the USB standards and pick from literally thousands of different pre-made parts that handle all the silly things for me. If I'm fine with 5v/2a power, I can just drop a $.0292 (that's…

Then last part, I think, is the question. They could certainly … use a port with the same form-factor and eMarkers to indicate capability, submitting their new technology to the USB-IF as a proposition for standard/enhancement. We already have, though, a glut of the pre-made components you talk about that cut every corner as close as they can-hopefully not so far as to start a fire, because you can’t sell to dead cus…

Thunderbolt cables are extra thick to support the signaling that thunderbolt requires, so unless you're actually using that cable for data, it's more cumbersome. And shorter - max of 10ft. Which may be fine for you, but no thanks. And also, optical Thunderbolt cables can't carry power, so there's no guarantee that a thunderbolt cable will even do power delivery. If it's longer than 10 ft, then it won't.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#795

Post by idk1 »

blurrybird wrote: post #109

As somebody who last night got an Apple stem out of their daughter's lightning port using a SIM card ejector tool, I'm torn. You can't do that (safely) with USB-C because of the female plug design.

It's not an idea answer, but you can do everything in terms of file transfers and charging via the internet and magsafe respectively.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#796

Post by zamnos »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #633
fbdab103 wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And everyone but Apple embraced the original specification[0]. Given Apple's previous moves, a heavier hand seems warranted. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply

To be fair to Apple, micro-USB was an inferior standard to lightning. Lightning is a more durable design (in terms of plug/unplug cycles), had higher power capacity originally, and was reversible.

USB-C is also inferior to lightning for laptops, but here we are. It's got this stupid internal tongue on the recepticals that will break if you try and clean the port with an office standard paperclip with any real force.

Hope you don't do anything involving tiny particles like sand or wood or cloth (like is found inside of pocket in the form of lint)!

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#797

Post by golemotron »

InCityDreams wrote: post #764
golemotron wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The EU stance and strictness on this is one of the things making me happy to be an EU citizen. It's going to look funny in a few years after the rest of the world moves to better technology.

...which the eu may then adopt.

So on technology it will be 1st world, 2nd world, 3rd world, EU.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#798

Post by crote »

megous wrote: post #563
crote wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends. USB-C supports PPS, which allows the charged device to request a specific voltage, so conversion is no longer needed. The specification does mandate that the device must be able to fall back to a static voltage if the charger does not support PPS, though. But in practice a device could totally require PPS for fast charging, and only do trickle charging with a non-PPS charger.

> But in practice a device could totally require PPS for fast charging, and only do trickle charging with a non-PPS charger. Not sure we have the same terms. Trickle charging is 0.02-0.05C charging to see if the charger can get the battery safely from being overdischarged to say 3V where it can start normal CC charging phase. That would probably piss off a lot of users and the EU if not even normal charging was suppo…

True, "trickle charge" is the wrong term. I guess it'd be better to call it "non-fast charge" or something.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#799

Post by crote »

throwaway2990 wrote: post #429
crote wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For low-speed (USB 2.0) devices, there are exactly three cables. One supports up to 60W, one supports up to 100W, and one supports up to 100W. Considering all the devices you listed need less than 60W, they should charge with all cables. If they do not, the manufacturer gave you a broken cable which does not follow the USB-C specification. Blame the manufacturer, not USB-C.

The fact there are different cables is what makes USB-C stupid. Do you think a mum and dad at home know the difference? My dad had a USB-C cable for his android tablet. When I got him an iPad he tried using the same cable. It wouldn’t change. That makes the whole point of USB-C pointless Defending the stupidness of USB-C cables just makes you a fanboy.

You mean like how there are different cables for HDMI, DisplayPort, or even a regular power cord?

The biggest problem is that manufacturers don't follow the spec. You are supposed to physically label the cable with its capabilities, but literally nobody bothers to do so.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#800

Post by crote »

Aerroon wrote: post #731
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if the whole world adopted this kind of regulatory stance, there would be much less incentive to invent that better cable because you now have huge regulatory bodies Imagine you didnt have law on shape and voltage of ordinsry power plugs in a house, and if you buy a samsung power socket to ibstall in your house, you mist buy samsung fridge and samsung washing machine and samsung hair dryer

But we already kind of have this problem. If I order a microwave from the UK and ship it to my other European country, then I'm already dealing with a power plug that is incompatible. This also means that the power plugs can't be optimal (ie there's room to improve), because all the different variants can't all be optimal at the same time. And yet, actually ever improving the power plug design is probably never going…

Unfortunately the UK is no longer in the European Union, so their plug is never going to be unified.

The EU seriously considered unifying wall sockets, but in the end it turned out to not really be worth the effort. Most devices have either a Europlug or CEE 7/7 plug, which are compatible with virtually all wall sockets in the EU.

Italy and Denmark are slowly switching their proprietary wall sockets to the more common Schuko variant, if I recall correctly, so improving it isn't impossible!

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