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EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

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Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#621

Post by nborwankar »

aetherson wrote: post #477

I think Apple should just make USB-C the norm for iPhones. But the idea that a trans-national government over 750M people should be trying to regulate in this level of detail is just obviously a recipe for disaster. For every one time they successfully push a company to do something correct -- but ultimately trivial, like this thing -- there are going to be 10 cases where some bureaucrat makes a bad decision and they…

It’s not really about the hardware interface. It’s about a single standard for charging infrastructure so that economies of scale and zero barrier to entry makes charging tech a commodity as it should be, not a product with premium pricing enforced by a proprietary interface. The market dynamics are the real target. The interface is being targeted because it’s the tool used to distort pricing and create a pseudo-premium product. Anker now makes far superior chargers for Apple products, cheaper and with more features than the original. But they are forced to pay Apple licensing fees for their proprietary but not really superior interface.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#622

Post by stale2002 »

crazygringo wrote: post #503
lelanthran wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what exactly is his "warning" about? Not sure about this particular one, but in general, this sort of warning is along the lines of "If you continue expending effort in subverting the spirit of the law, we shall tighten the regulations to such an extent that it will hurt you" . The world and their dog knew what the goal of the regulations were: if the goal is not met because "Apple has a lot of lawyers and presu…

Then it's very childish. It's the responsibility of legislators and regulators to be clear and precise -- to mean what they say and say what they mean. To "punish" a company for following a law, because of something the law doesn't actually say, is not what rule of law means, and would be a shameful thing. No company should have to intuit or guess what the government "really" meant, over and above what the law actual…

> But some kind of "warning" to "do something we didn't say in the law" is just plain wrong.

No. Acting in bad faith is what is wrong.

If Apple doesn't like it, then they can shut down their business in the EU.

Companies acting in bad faith should be explicitly punished, to an extra degree, that is intentionally designed to hurt them.

We have this right, to use laws, in a society, to punish bad faith actors.

If you don't like it, then vote for something else (you'll lose that vote though, lol) or leave the country.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#623

Post by Moldoteck »

robertoandred wrote: post #534
Moldoteck wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switch to usb-c just like they did with ipads? And laptops?

There was no USB-C in 2012.

Yes, but now it's 2023, 11 years seems enough to switch from an old usb2.0 port

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#624

Post by piperswe »

Aeolun wrote: post #378
philistine wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Considering that this is almost certainly related to your own personal behavior and/or environment, it isn't surprising that you find it reproducible, albeit a bit odd. Hey, before you accuse people of doing the wrong thing, make sure you're right. Lighting has historically had shorts issues when inserting, and Apple has tried their best to resolve the problem. They never 100% resolved the problem however, although…

If someone else has the problem 100% of the time, and you have the problem 0% of the time, I think it is reasonable to presume the fault lies with them or their environment (or at least, not the hardware).

True, they must just be holding it wrong.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#625

Post by nickpp »

anigbrowl wrote: post #613
wskinner wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many responses to my comment made the same argument, so I’ll just reply here. What do you see as the main safety differences between Lightning and USB-C? As both systems have been in use at scale for some time now, this should be easy enough to answer quantitatively. My understanding is that they offer equivalent safety, in spite of Lightning not having been standardized by the EU, but I may be wrong.

You're missing the point. It's not that Lightning is bad, it's probably great (I don't have any iThings to compare). But left to themselves, it's entirely plausible that Apple will just abandon it in a few years in favor of some exciting new technology called Laser or Quantum or Telluric. Sure, people will complain, but they'll upgrade because there are some other great new features on the iPhone 17, plus clinging to…

Lighting has been the standard for Apple devices longer than USB-C existed, since 2012. The previous standard, the 30-pin connector was introduced in 2003.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#626

Post by anigbrowl »

revelio wrote: post #598
blowski wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going to eat salad this evening, but since I ate pizza for dinner last week, I realised there’s no point in me eating healthily tonight. Of course the EU can make bad decisions in one area without precluding them making good ones in others.

> Of course the EU can make bad decisions in one area without precluding them making good ones in others. That's the whole point: they cannot. You guys are missing the problem here. The exact same systems and people who made the bad decisions about masks and vaccines are the ones making the decisions about phone chargers. You can't say well obviously that decision was bad, but this one is good. Some of us recall that…

First, it's not the exact same systems and people; second, the circumstances are not analogous - a public health health emergency has a different set of considerations from a chronic junk problem; third, you have surely made some bad decisions in life as well as good ones, but you would probably be upset if people around you reacted to everything you did on the basis of your worst failure.

Sure, burning warehouses full of covid masks is absurdly wasteful. But do they really drop to zero effectiveness on their expiration date? Experience says no. If they're not fit to surgical standard, maybe they can be stamped with some identifying mark and redistributed as dust masks or something. The main reason the default option is to burn them is because history suggests that otherwise businesses will buy them and resell them as medical-grade or whatever without fully informing prospective customers.

Do you have a proposal for dealing with commercial mendacity that's less severe than just abolishing all state efforts at procurement or establishment of consumer standards?

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#627

Post by bonzini »

worrycue wrote: post #469
rswail wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My iPhone has a lightning port and wireless charging. That's two. How long until wireless charging is the default? Particularly combined with the iPhone's magsafe that allows charging to occur while the device is at any orientation?

Wireless charging by definition has no physical port - if you have to plug it in, it's not wireless. No manufacturer is going to waste space that could be use for battery and further compromise water/dust proofing to add another port, for a total of 2, even if it's better than USB-C because the opportunity cost is too high.

The better connector would start on laptops, maybe high-end tablets too, and it would take a few years anyway before it moves to phones. That's what happened with USB-C at least.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#628

Post by dghlsakjg »

xg15 wrote: post #486
sharedbeans wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you help me understand what you're saying? It comes off as so over the top that I find it absurd, but maybe we just have different backgrounds/experience. 1) Companies are not incentivized to produce incompatible cables, the industry has done a remarkably good job of settling on basically a single standard, so the incentives seem to run counter to what you say. The major hold out introduced their own cable standa…

There is an entire product category of "universal power adapters"[1] that wouldn't exist if GP's problem weren't an issue - and that was back when most adapters were just "dumb" power sources that provided a fixed voltage with fixed maximum current. There is no way to combine Micro USB, USBC, Thunderbolt and whatever Microsoft was doing with Surface devices into one adapter without separate electronics for each port.…

As someone who designs device, I would HATE having to use a proprietary connector/device/protocol. I'm small time, so maybe engineering departments at major companies see it differently.

Right now I can design a product that uses one of the USB standards and pick from literally thousands of different pre-made parts that handle all the silly things for me. If I'm fine with 5v/2a power, I can just drop a $.0292 (that's the prototype price, it drops drastically at higher volumes) piece into the design and know that any cable and charger will work with it.

If I need more power than 10 watts I can spend $.50 on a usb-c plug and PD controller.

I truly don't understand why companies would fight this for most devices.

The one thing I'm worried about is what happens when someone comes up with something truly innovative (say, a phone battery that can charge at faster than 100 watts). Does that mean they will be penalized if they have to use a proprietary connector since usb-c is unable to meet that?

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#629

Post by anigbrowl »

taf2 wrote: post #118

What happens when there is a better USB-C plug - isn't there a concern that locking into the current standard means in 50 years the EU is still stuck. I imagine we're in uncharted territory given in less then my lifetime USB was invented and has gone through at least 14 iterations e.g. it's been changing very fast. Unfortunately I fear even asking this question probably angers some, but I think it's an interesting qu…

The same thing that happens when you need a better electrical outlet; it gets offered in an industrial context and if it's really good then consumer demand will drive its adoption.

Unfortunately I fear even asking this question probably angers some

Please don't post like this. It's not a new or original insight and you're moving the discussion toward emotionalism rather than facts.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#630

Post by Moldoteck »

perryizgr8 wrote: post #528
Moldoteck wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, there is a word, called standard and govs sometimes mandate those standards to help consumers...

I'm all for standards bodies. But government should not force anybody to follow a particular one. It's not like apple is advertising USB C and not delivering it. If lightning is so inferior to USB C, consumers will vote with their money and iPhones will either die out or apple will start offering it with USB C. The fact is that it hardly matters. This is a non issue for most users. But due to some bureaucrats who hav…

Users pay not just for the port but for other things too, the fact that port is bad doesn't mean people will not buy a phone it just means port is bad and it is bad for environment to use it instead of an universal usbc. If Apple want to keep it, it can include both ports for eu market but let's be serious, they understand lightning is inferior and people will just demand typec when given the chance
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