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EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

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Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#561

Post by _trackno5 »

arnvald wrote: post #504
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am genuinely surprised Apple doesn’t just go portless in the EU out the gate.

I think there are still some potential obstacles like diagnostic devices (how to diagnose phone that doesn't boot without a cable?) and pricing - adding magsafe by default would probably raise costs

> adding magsafe by default would probably raise costs

What do you mean by this? All iPhone models currently sold by Apple (except for the SE model) have magsafe and wireless charging by default.

They could also just have a non-charging Lightning port on the phones and say screw you to the EU :P

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#562

Post by wskinner »

oasisbob wrote: post #542
aetherson wrote: post #477

I think Apple should just make USB-C the norm for iPhones. But the idea that a trans-national government over 750M people should be trying to regulate in this level of detail is just obviously a recipe for disaster. For every one time they successfully push a company to do something correct -- but ultimately trivial, like this thing -- there are going to be 10 cases where some bureaucrat makes a bad decision and they…

> But the idea that a trans-national government over 750M people should be trying to regulate in this level of detail is just obviously a recipe for disaster Why? Standards harmonization has big upsides too. For example, the EU PPE safety standards are so good that there aren't even North American equivalents for many products. If you buy a climbing carabiner in the US, it's being tested according to a test procedure…

If the standards are so good, they shouldn’t need to force companies to use them.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#563

Post by megous »

crote wrote: post #310
megous wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Battery in the phone needs ~4.2V for charging. So you need conversion in the phone no matter what voltage you supply on the USB port.

It depends. USB-C supports PPS, which allows the charged device to request a specific voltage, so conversion is no longer needed. The specification does mandate that the device must be able to fall back to a static voltage if the charger does not support PPS, though. But in practice a device could totally require PPS for fast charging, and only do trickle charging with a non-PPS charger.

> But in practice a device could totally require PPS for fast charging, and only do trickle charging with a non-PPS charger.

Not sure we have the same terms. Trickle charging is 0.02-0.05C charging to see if the charger can get the battery safely from being overdischarged to say 3V where it can start normal CC charging phase.

That would probably piss off a lot of users and the EU if not even normal charging was supported by a device connected to any USB charger, because that's back to requiring a specific charger for each device, where not even basic things that all users expect work anymore with all conforming chargers.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#564

Post by seanmcdirmid »

falcolas wrote: post #537
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should try MagSafe. I haven’t felt my phone feel hot once since I changed my charging from a pad to a MagSafe charger. They are also much more efficient, since not much heat is being generated.

This is with MagSafe. Sure, there’s not the same misalignment issue, but there’s still a gap, made worse by cases.

Ya, it sounds like you have a really bad charger then. My phone is always cold when I pick it up even while it’s charging (ie not finished charging).

I have a non-MagSafe pad in my car that causes my phone to get really hot, in comparison.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#565

Post by microtonal »

frankfrankfrank wrote: post #270
epolanski wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is in any way authoritarian, no one's personal freedom is at stake here. The regulation is for hardware companies, not you. There is no "unfair advantage" to USB-C patent holders, it's a standard that the industry settled on in a cooperative fashion in which Apple was itself a major player. No one prevented the industry from working on a "patent-free" different standard. Point is, you can't and sho…

It never crossed your mind that there may be a reason that Apple does not want to use the USB-C standard for all its disadvantages over the lightning connector that they have now had for 11 years. Apple has had two types of plugs over 20 years now. Can you say that about Nokia? Samsung? Etc?

You mean the great connector that is so bandwidth-deprived (and doesn't support alt-modes) that Apple has to send lower-than 1080p video with bad artifacting down the cable?

https://panic.com/blog/the-lightning-digital-av-adapter-surp...

https://panic.com/blog/the-lightning-digital-av-adapter-surp...

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#566

Post by ajmurmann »

episteme wrote: post #424
ajmurmann wrote: post #415

This whole thing is so silly. It also drastically reduces my confidence that I keep reading about "chargers". Nobody needs a separate charger. All that's needed is a cable that has a lightning tip. It doesn't even have to be a dedicated cable, it can be one with interchangeable tips or a separate adapter. If anyone is really concerned about wasteful production of chargers then ban selling chargers and maybe even cabl…

I suppose the difference is that Apple don't have the monopoly on your charger?

What does Apple have a monopoly on? None of my cables or chargers were made by Apple. My chargers have USB-C plugs over which Apple has no control. As my main point above was, lightning has nothing to do with chargers. Yet these articles keep complaining about chargers.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#567

Post by aliceryhl »

wskinner wrote: post #562
oasisbob wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the idea that a trans-national government over 750M people should be trying to regulate in this level of detail is just obviously a recipe for disaster Why? Standards harmonization has big upsides too. For example, the EU PPE safety standards are so good that there aren't even North American equivalents for many products. If you buy a climbing carabiner in the US, it's being tested according to a test procedure…

If the standards are so good, they shouldn’t need to force companies to use them.

Being good for the consumer is not necessarily the same as being good for the company selling the device.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#568

Post by Nullabillity »

Auracle wrote: post #501
skeletal88 wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happened because the EU forced them to agree on a single charger/cable standard and it happened to be micro-usb for a while. Before this every mobile manufacturer had their own version of a charging AND data cable, separately..

The EU absolutely did not force micro-usb. It was a strongly worded suggestion at a time when it seems we were already moving that way.

"Use micro-usb or we will make you use it".

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#569

Post by walthamstow »

msie wrote: post #551
PedroBatista wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a better USB-C plug happens, the standards will get updated, instead of millions of people having to buy 10 versions of a damn plug NOW. It's not like the EU standardizes emergent and rapidly evolving things, it's a freaking plug and "stuck in the past" isn't exactly how I describe the EU.

No one is buying 10 versions of a damn plug. Only a gadget enthusiast who changes their phone type every year would see that problem. If you stick to Android there is one plug. If you stick to iPhone there is one plug.

If you only have an iPhone, there is one plug.

If you have an iPhone and basically any other device like a MacBook, Sony headphones, Nintendo Switch, Sony PS5 controller, the list goes on and on, then you actually need two plugs.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#570

Post by heliostatic »

wskinner wrote: post #562
oasisbob wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the idea that a trans-national government over 750M people should be trying to regulate in this level of detail is just obviously a recipe for disaster Why? Standards harmonization has big upsides too. For example, the EU PPE safety standards are so good that there aren't even North American equivalents for many products. If you buy a climbing carabiner in the US, it's being tested according to a test procedure…

If the standards are so good, they shouldn’t need to force companies to use them.

I believe we have found the economist.

What's the electrical failure rate of every appliance in your home, and the associated risk of death by electrocution? If you don't know offhand, it might be that you are implicitly relying on UL standards to keep you safe and whole.

Consumers don't have perfect information, so the risk is asymmetric. If you assume the market will sort out risk and quality so we don't need standards and enforcement thereof, I don't believe your model is aligned with reality.

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