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EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

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Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#201

Post by VonGallifrey »

nickpp wrote: post #167
bluescrn wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s stop using the ‘side loading’ euphemism and just call it ‘loading’. Let us load our own code.

Most people do not have "their own code". Instead it is your code you want me and my grandmother to load and I simply do not want to, unless you go through Apple's hurdles to check and verify it.

I don't want to jump out of a plane therefore I want to outlaw skydiving.

Actually I don't have to outlaw things I don't like for myself. I will simply not go skydiving and other people are wellcome to take the risk for themselves.

No one is forcing you to load anything you don't want to. You don't need to force your decision onto everyone. There is a difference between "I don't want to load your code" and "I don't want anyone to have the ability to load your code".

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#202

Post by throwaway50606 »

mrtksn wrote: post #200
throwaway50606 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it means somebody regulated a single connector type.

I guess all failed inventors and entrepreneurs have someone to blame.

Nobody is even going to be trying after this comes into effect.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#203

Post by ghaff »

throwaway50606 wrote: post #165
mrtksn wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU laws don't expand beyond EU. EU consist about 5% of the population, 95% can have whatever they like. Yes, there's Brussels effect but that effect work when the trouble of designing or producing something else is not worth it. Also, you are not banned from engineering other solutions. The police isn't going to knock on the doors of engineers who are suspected to develop better charging cables :)

EU is the second largest market in the world. Of course everything is going to be made in a way that's sellable in the EU. > Also, you are not banned from engineering other solutions. The police isn't going to knock on the doors of engineers who are suspected to develop better charging cables :) We are discussing under an article where the regulator has sent a "stern warning" to a company. I don't think what you're s…

You mean like how EU-compatible AC plugs/voltages are sold everywhere else in the world? Of course, manufacturers can have different versions of things for different geos--or just not sell in the EU if it's not profitable to do so (which presumably won't be the case with the iPhone).

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#204

Post by MichaelZuo »

bantunes wrote: post #169
can16358p wrote: post #152

"You have to use my designated charge port on your own device with your own adapter and change your own designs for that if you want to sell your device. We don't care if it's a step backwards in terms of design and internal space where every cubic millimeter is utilized." Not to defend Apple or anything but EU is being the mafia here.

The early 2000s were a mess with company-specific cables and USB was forced upon them and made things much simpler, Apple is just the last holdout. Forcing 3rd-party manufacturers to buy chips from them for their devices to work with Apple phones feels like the real protection racket to me.

The parent has a point, the regulation is forcing a slightly smaller battery, slightly less durable connector, much more expensive repairs when the port stem breaks, etc.

For devices that doesn't need the extra capabilities.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#205

Post by stephc_int13 »

taf2 wrote: post #118

What happens when there is a better USB-C plug - isn't there a concern that locking into the current standard means in 50 years the EU is still stuck. I imagine we're in uncharted territory given in less then my lifetime USB was invented and has gone through at least 14 iterations e.g. it's been changing very fast. Unfortunately I fear even asking this question probably angers some, but I think it's an interesting qu…

Standards are good for everyone, even when very old and seemingly outdated.

Being "locked" on a a few not awful standard connectors is a good thing.

The Edison screw bulb is very simple, reliable, still used today even if I am sure that many companies would have invented more sophisticated standards over the years, I am glad they did not.

I still use audio jack connectors as much as possible, and I think that the world would be a slightly better place if we had universal AC power plugs.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#206

Post by dahfizz »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #182
taf2 wrote: post #118

What happens when there is a better USB-C plug - isn't there a concern that locking into the current standard means in 50 years the EU is still stuck. I imagine we're in uncharted territory given in less then my lifetime USB was invented and has gone through at least 14 iterations e.g. it's been changing very fast. Unfortunately I fear even asking this question probably angers some, but I think it's an interesting qu…

I think it's relevant, but I feel there's a good precedent already - didn't europe previously mandate Micro-USB, since like 2010?

No, this is a common misunderstanding.

The EU previously issued a Memorandum of Understanding, which basically just asked phone manufacturer nicely to please use USB micro-B. There was no mandate or enforcement (obviously, because Apple never released a phone with micro-B).

The USB-C law is an actual law which can't be ignored. The law will need to be updated when USB-D comes out.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#207

Post by throwaway50606 »

ghaff wrote: post #203
throwaway50606 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU is the second largest market in the world. Of course everything is going to be made in a way that's sellable in the EU. > Also, you are not banned from engineering other solutions. The police isn't going to knock on the doors of engineers who are suspected to develop better charging cables :) We are discussing under an article where the regulator has sent a "stern warning" to a company. I don't think what you're s…

You mean like how EU-compatible AC plugs/voltages are sold everywhere else in the world? Of course, manufacturers can have different versions of things for different geos--or just not sell in the EU if it's not profitable to do so (which presumably won't be the case with the iPhone).

EU exists 10% of the time the electrical plugs existed and were regulated in the respective countries.

We are talking about new innovations, not something used for 100 years.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#208

Post by arlort »

taf2 wrote: post #118

What happens when there is a better USB-C plug - isn't there a concern that locking into the current standard means in 50 years the EU is still stuck. I imagine we're in uncharted territory given in less then my lifetime USB was invented and has gone through at least 14 iterations e.g. it's been changing very fast. Unfortunately I fear even asking this question probably angers some, but I think it's an interesting qu…

> isn't there a concern Yes, there is, but there's a few things mitigating the concern IMO

1. The "locking in" is not universal, it mostly concerns portable devices and has exceptions for higher wattage requirements 2. USB-C is a very flexible format, at the moment I think Thunderbolt 4 is the maximum commercially and that can deliver 40Gbs and 240W 3. What's locked in is a minimum, you can have two different charging ports on any device as long as one of them is USB-C

So as far as I can see you would incur into problems if you: 1. Want less than 100W of power 2. Need more than 40Gbs (I think thunderbolt 5 will bring this to 80?) 3. Don't care about compatibility with headphones, mice, keyboards, external hard drives etc which more and more are going to switch to usb-c 5. Can't physically put more than one charging port on the device 6. They can't afford to make the case for an exception from the commission

This is certainly a possibility but I think it's a minor one, and personally it's worth it if it means I can bring less chargers around (it's less highlighted but for devices with certain capabilities this law also mandates compliance with power delivery standard)

My approach to the whole thing is that I more or less see USB-C as a parallel to electrical sockets, we might be missing out on some theoretical improvements but I'll take that chance

> means in 50 years the EU is still stuck The commission can adapt the law through implementing regulations and it can still be adapted or repealed through the standard process, I can see as realistic us in the EU missing out on some fancy new port for 2-3 years (which I grant would suck) but doubt it'd be more than that

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#209

Post by hartator »

Deukhoofd wrote: post #193
rocketbop wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The regulations get updated, you aren't stuck on usb-c. Isn't there a chicken and egg problem there - no one will release products with new power interfaces, because they aren't releasable in Europe. I suppose such products might get released first in the US, but which large tech company if going to ignore the EU market when releasing important products?

They can propose it to the USB Implementers Forum, standardize it as a new USB standard, and pass it to the EU.

So, the EU is now in charge of deciding USB implementation?

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#210

Post by PedroBatista »

taf2 wrote: post #118

What happens when there is a better USB-C plug - isn't there a concern that locking into the current standard means in 50 years the EU is still stuck. I imagine we're in uncharted territory given in less then my lifetime USB was invented and has gone through at least 14 iterations e.g. it's been changing very fast. Unfortunately I fear even asking this question probably angers some, but I think it's an interesting qu…

When a better USB-C plug happens, the standards will get updated, instead of millions of people having to buy 10 versions of a damn plug NOW.

It's not like the EU standardizes emergent and rapidly evolving things, it's a freaking plug and "stuck in the past" isn't exactly how I describe the EU.

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