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EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

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Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#321

Post by [deleted] »

jzb wrote: post #275
christophilus wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if the whole world adopted this kind of regulatory stance, there would be much less incentive to invent that better cable because you now have huge regulatory bodies that may block its adoption and thus mean most of that work was money and time wasted. This kind of thing may tilt the risk / reward of research towards the riskier end of the spectrum. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing— just that it’s not without cons…

If the whole world adopted this stance maybe I wouldn’t an overflowing box of useless, obsolete cables. Maybe I wouldn’t need separate chargers and cables for my phone, tablet, ebook reader, and other assorted devices. The amount of waste produced because companies are incentivized to produce incompatible devices like charger cables is staggering. The additional cost burden on users is unnecessary. The theoretical be…

[deleted]

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#322

Post by bluGill »

rkagerer wrote: post #240
crote wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law explicitly states that it has to be reviewed every couple of years to determine whether USB-C it is still the best choice, or there has been sufficient technological progress to warrant a switch to a newer standard. The fear for a "lock-in" is completely unfounded, as the EU previously quasi-mandated Micro USB and switching to USB-C was no issue whatsoever. Besides, nothing is stopping manufacturers from incl…

But if enough governments of the world mandate one technology... no innovator will have the appetite to market something better (whether that be Apple or a startup).

Sometimes that is good. The EU power plug is probably better than the earlier US standard one, but it isn't enough better to switch everything i own to use it. (220 vs 120 volts is an issue that i'll ignore for this discussion). I'm sure engineers could do better than the EU plug, but not enough they would switch.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#323

Post by dijit »

sokoloff wrote: post #318
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if the whole world adopted this kind of regulatory stance, there would be much less incentive to invent that better cable because you now have huge regulatory bodies Imagine you didnt have law on shape and voltage of ordinsry power plugs in a house, and if you buy a samsung power socket to ibstall in your house, you mist buy samsung fridge and samsung washing machine and samsung hair dryer

That brings up an interesting question: “Is NEMA 5-15 in fact standardized by force of law?”

No, you can have receptacles of any shape in the USA, at least at the federal level.

However it's not uncommon for this to be enforced by law, for example it is a legal requirement that in the UK all goods sold must adhere to the BS 1363-1 standard.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#324

Post by ralfd »

kibwen wrote: post #314
frankfrankfrank wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It never crossed your mind that there may be a reason that Apple does not want to use the USB-C standard for all its disadvantages over the lightning connector that they have now had for 11 years. Apple has had two types of plugs over 20 years now. Can you say that about Nokia? Samsung? Etc?

> It never crossed your mind that there may be a reason that Apple does not want to use the USB-C standard The reason is extremely obvious: cementing user lock-in to the Apple ecosystem.

Lightning is smaller than USB-C. That alone makes it more desirable for space-obsessed Apple. I think it is more robust and easier to clean too.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#325

Post by alpaca128 »

nonethewiser wrote: post #262
epolanski wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't there a chicken and egg problem there - no one will release products with new power interfaces Yes, that's the point. Instead of anyone releasing products with new power interfaces the goal is to have industry-wide discussion on adopting new standards for everyone. I think it's reasonable and only a positive thing. If the industry will decide that USB-C isn't enough they will revise the standard.

> the goal is to have industry-wide discussion on adopting new standards for everyone. That’s not part of the regulation whatsoever > If the industry will decide that USB-C isn't enough they will revise the standard. But the industry doesn’t come together and pick a standard. The EU did. The closest industries came to picking a standard were freely choosing from many different formats that emerged. Imagine what it wo…

> Imagine what it would take for the executives at Apple, Samsung, Motorola, etc. to come together and all agree on some new format

You mean exactly what happened when the USB standard was created by 7 tech companies?

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#326

Post by revelio »

viraptor wrote: post #251
christophilus wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if the whole world adopted this kind of regulatory stance, there would be much less incentive to invent that better cable because you now have huge regulatory bodies that may block its adoption and thus mean most of that work was money and time wasted. This kind of thing may tilt the risk / reward of research towards the riskier end of the spectrum. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing— just that it’s not without cons…

It's not the regulatory bodies deciding. It's the industry agreeing on when to move on. If they co-operate and design the new version in the open, there's no risk of wasted time. If they don't... it's a good lesson I guess.

Of course it's the regulatory bodies deciding. What do you think they're doing right now, what this article is about? There is no mechanism for "industry agreeing" that the rule should be discarded.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#327

Post by bad_good_guy »

dbg31415 wrote: post #313

Terrifying to give government this much control over tech. If Apple wants to build a premium experience that is better than USB-C then what? They can’t? We essentially gave W3C control over web accessibly and they can’t even release a new set of WCAG standards. Stalled and seems to be dead in committee. Keep in mind the EU doesn’t even have a standard power outlet. This is just the EU being petty and bullying an Amer…

A stark warning for the effects of neoliberalism on a human mind.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#328

Post by revelio »

avar wrote: post #307
crote wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law explicitly states that it has to be reviewed every couple of years to determine whether USB-C it is still the best choice, or there has been sufficient technological progress to warrant a switch to a newer standard. The fear for a "lock-in" is completely unfounded, as the EU previously quasi-mandated Micro USB and switching to USB-C was no issue whatsoever. Besides, nothing is stopping manufacturers from incl…

Couple of years? The only mention I can find of a review is every 5, per[1]. I assumed the directive had some "go with the flow" upgrade path, but after reading the directive I can't see any wording to that effect. If the USB-IF depreciated USB-C in favor of a USB-X the EU's directive wouldn't change, the only "upgrade path" appears to be that the commission will "asses" whether the directive should be changed every…

You might call it a five year plan. Funny how those crop up so often!

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#330

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

hutzlibu wrote: post #288
nonethewiser wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the goal is to have industry-wide discussion on adopting new standards for everyone. That’s not part of the regulation whatsoever > If the industry will decide that USB-C isn't enough they will revise the standard. But the industry doesn’t come together and pick a standard. The EU did. The closest industries came to picking a standard were freely choosing from many different formats that emerged. Imagine what it wo…

"Imagine what it would take for the executives at Apple, Samsung, Motorola, etc. to come together and all agree on some new format that perhaps one of them developed. Now consider that the EU would still have to approve it. The conclusion made from that Herculean effort might just be null and void." The EU does not really care on the standard and does not judge the technical decision - it cares about that there is on…

Moreover, "Imagine what it would take for the executives at Apple, Samsung, Motorola, etc. to come together and all agree on some new format that perhaps one of them developed" is not actually hard to imagine, if you just drop Apple from the list.

It is specifically Apple that has been the plays-badly-with-others child in this domain; the industry as a whole doesn't seem to have had much of a problem with the general idea.

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