https://kagi.com/pricing?plan=individual I knew Kagi is paid but I didn't know they had a limit on how many searches you can perform, which is also rather low. But what I really didn't like is how dishonest they are. The lowest tier costs $5 and includes 200 searches per month. That is 6.66 per day! But they say "Includes enough searches for 99% of internet users" because "The average person searches Google three or…
FWIW I've been using Kagi exclusively since Nov 2022, and here's what my monthly usage looks like: Apr 2023 - 895 Mar 2023 - 1047 Feb 2023 - 650 Jan 2023 - 603 Dec 2022 - 1367 Trends much higher when I screw something up on my network! I have been asking GPT-* a lot of what I would have previously searched for. And there's still a lot of searching `+reddit.com` because they can't seem to solve search. I pay $10/mo an…
Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience
121–130 of 168 posts
Re: Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience
#122Many talk about the pricing, but for me the value of having a working (unlike DDG) search engine that doesn't secretly think it knows better than me (like Google) is worth everything I pay now. Internet is I guess, next after a working computer with a working dev environment, the thing that makes most difference for many of us developers. For me it has value in two different ways: 1. time saved by arriving at the cor…
In the past few days it’s helped me with a bunch of k8s stuff (“explain this coredns log message”, “give me the kubectl command to show all events sorted by most recent first”, etc…)
Re: Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience
#123Re: Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
You seem to know more about this than I do, but my layperson's takeaway from the Snowden revelations is that the NSA records every url we browse. Are you saying that's incorrect?
The only way NSA can record the URL without having infiltrated Kagi's datacenter, is for them to have broken the encryption algorithms behind TLS/HTTPS. If that's the case, nowhere on the regular Internet is safe. Snowden revealed that NSA has infiltrated all the major industry players (Apple, Microsoft, Google, etc.), also ISPs. But the only way NSA can know what your plaintext HTTPS URL is either by having access t…
Or if they have access to, or can subpoena, a MitMaaS for HTTPS. Like Cloudflare.
Re: Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience
#125https://kagi.com/pricing?plan=individual I knew Kagi is paid but I didn't know they had a limit on how many searches you can perform, which is also rather low. But what I really didn't like is how dishonest they are. The lowest tier costs $5 and includes 200 searches per month. That is 6.66 per day! But they say "Includes enough searches for 99% of internet users" because "The average person searches Google three or…
(Kagi founder here) You are correct in saying that almost all current Kagi users are in the other 1% category (tech savvy professionals who search a lot). But this plan is not meant for then. This plan is literally made for the 99% of all users who search the web 2-3 times a day, as the statistics show. We would like Kagi to have much broader adoption outside the HN crowd, and a low price plan is essential. How would…
This way one search is maybe $0,05 or whatever, but at least one can use KAGI without signing up for an account.
Several paywall solutions exist for this, like:
- http://paywall.lightningj.org/ - https://medium.com/@infolightningj/lightningj-paywall-bringi...
Re: Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
The only way NSA can record the URL without having infiltrated Kagi's datacenter, is for them to have broken the encryption algorithms behind TLS/HTTPS. If that's the case, nowhere on the regular Internet is safe. Snowden revealed that NSA has infiltrated all the major industry players (Apple, Microsoft, Google, etc.), also ISPs. But the only way NSA can know what your plaintext HTTPS URL is either by having access t…
> is for them to have broken the encryption algorithms behind TLS/HTTPS. Or if they have access to, or can subpoena, a MitMaaS for HTTPS. Like Cloudflare.
Re: Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience
#127Please note that the founder worked for GoDaddy!
Re: Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's completely honest. You don't have a sense of typical use. I'd argue search power users make fewer searches a day, too, but like you, and unlike Kagi, I can't back that up with sources.
I was vaguely aware of Kagi from their posts here in the past and thought it sounded interesting but hadn't bothered trying it out as I'm fairly happy with DDG. I just gave it a quick try there. While some of the features seem promising, the website ranking for example, what they consider a search doesn't feel great from a user perspective. Each step below resulted in part of my quota being used up: 1. Making the ini…
Re: Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
I appreciate the response and I'd like to reiterate that I might just not be the right user with the right expectations. Still, I hope it's useful to hear why someone might be on the fence about the product. > (9 is probably a bug) To clarify 9, the request is sent when clicking the cross on the Lens > Edit page rather on than visiting it. This also occurs when returning from maps. In both cases a new search is only…
> I do think that some aspects of the UX encourage billing superfluous searches and that, on a purely financial level, Kagi is dis-incentivised from improving this. Kagi is selling searches at cost, and we make money on subscriptions. Making a suboptimal UX id definitely not what we are doing, as people pay us for UX to be optimal. You point out some valid use-cases there and the reason we haven't addressed them so f…
Please don't feel that I was making any hard judgements about Kagi or yourself based on the points I mentioned. My only intention has been to learn a bit more about the product and provide some insight into what someone evaluating the product for the first time might feel. I appreciate that the points may come across as hostile/challenging but I'd be happiest if they were rebutted easily.
Your present response does raise some concerns however.
> Kagi is selling searches at cost
This is a different claim from your blog post on 08/03/23 where the cost of each search was 1.25 cents. If this isn't the case, you're losing money on any annual unlimited subscribers that make more than 1,416 searches each month.
> and we make money on subscriptions
If this is the case, why not differentiate the subscriptions based on their value-add features and operate an upper bound of $25/mo on the amount charged for searches for all tiers?
If you're making money off of the subscription, why don't the search quotas roll over?
Together, these three points give the impression that the aim is for subscription search quotas to be under-utilised rather than to provide the searches at cost.
> You point out some valid use-cases there and the reason we haven't addressed them so far is probably because they are rare and users didn't care enough to post and upvote them on kagifeedback.org for it to make a difference.
That's a fair point regarding general feedback. I can't speak as your average user but as someone that wasn't already invested in the product they were areas that introduced friction in the decision of whether I'd like to pay for the product or not. A user evaluating the product is unlikely to post why they haven't converted to kagifeedback.org, even if they're aware of the site. It's worth bearing in mind that issues for potential users may not be a problem for existing users, apportioning time to the desires of both groups is a difficult balance.
> and is planned on our roadmap, just not prioritized (just one upvote) and we had bigger fish to fry.
My personal perspective is that it's absolutely unacceptable for a company to double-charge due to their own UI decisions. Spurious billing in general is something I would expect to be treated as top priority on an ongoing basis. Treating it's occurrence as a feature request raises serious concerns, especially regarding how similar/more impactful situations might be handled.
I'm disappointed, there's a lot to like about the product itself.
Re: Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience
#130https://kagi.com/pricing?plan=individual I knew Kagi is paid but I didn't know they had a limit on how many searches you can perform, which is also rather low. But what I really didn't like is how dishonest they are. The lowest tier costs $5 and includes 200 searches per month. That is 6.66 per day! But they say "Includes enough searches for 99% of internet users" because "The average person searches Google three or…
(Kagi founder here) You are correct in saying that almost all current Kagi users are in the other 1% category (tech savvy professionals who search a lot). But this plan is not meant for then. This plan is literally made for the 99% of all users who search the web 2-3 times a day, as the statistics show. We would like Kagi to have much broader adoption outside the HN crowd, and a low price plan is essential. How would…
"Includes enough searches for X% of current Kagi users"