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Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience

blog.kagi.com

71–80 of 168 posts

Re: Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience

#71
post #46
post #10

https://kagi.com/pricing?plan=individual I knew Kagi is paid but I didn't know they had a limit on how many searches you can perform, which is also rather low. But what I really didn't like is how dishonest they are. The lowest tier costs $5 and includes 200 searches per month. That is 6.66 per day! But they say "Includes enough searches for 99% of internet users" because "The average person searches Google three or…

It also doesn't say what currency it's in anywhere on that page. Is that my local currency or (presumably) USD? That makes a very large difference to my price.

USD

Re: Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience

#72
post #67

> Kagi shopping results have no affiliate links and feature the most helpful, unbiased reviews." Wonder how they determine if a review is unbiased or not. Any attempt at automating this process means someone else will figure a way to game the system over time.

Which is why we can not say how, but please check and let us know if the reviews sound unbiased :)

Re: Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience

#73
I’ve been using Kagi for almost a year now and love it. I’m on the early-adopter plan, but just checked and haven’t been anywhere near my included number of searches in the last 6 months. I probably do some searches with DDG on my work machine, so I’d probably being doing less than twice as many as I actually am if I set up my work machine to use Kagi. (But I like to keep work and home stuff separate.) Overall very impressed with it and also using the Orion browser and loving it.

Re: Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> their browser is irredeemably buggy Seconded. I gave it a few months, but it just wouldn't improve by itself. To be fair: With a detailed bug report (via Discord, making it excruciatingly hard to find duplicates/follow up), the problem would often be fixed in the next release. But it wasn't 1 or 2, it was more like 20 easily spotted issues. Come on, I can't do all of your testing. I think I've never said it this cl…

Fair enough. We do have over 2,000 open issues [1] for the browser, so buggy is probably an understatement. But we are getting there. More than 1,500 issues have been addressed. And Orion is the fastest browser on Mac and completely zero telemetry at that. Give us a bit more time.. [1] https://oriongeedback.org

For it’s worth, you’ve been very responsive to my feedback, so thank you! It’s not perfect, but I’m really liking it so far.

Re: Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience

#75
post #10

https://kagi.com/pricing?plan=individual I knew Kagi is paid but I didn't know they had a limit on how many searches you can perform, which is also rather low. But what I really didn't like is how dishonest they are. The lowest tier costs $5 and includes 200 searches per month. That is 6.66 per day! But they say "Includes enough searches for 99% of internet users" because "The average person searches Google three or…

FWIW I've been using Kagi exclusively since Nov 2022, and here's what my monthly usage looks like:

  Apr 2023 - 895
  Mar 2023 - 1047
  Feb 2023 - 650
  Jan 2023 - 603
  Dec 2022 - 1367
Trends much higher when I screw something up on my network!

I have been asking GPT-* a lot of what I would have previously searched for. And there's still a lot of searching `+reddit.com` because they can't seem to solve search.

I pay $10/mo and am grandfathered in as an "early adopter" with 1K searches. I would be willing to pay more because I've been so happy with it. It's simple stuff -- it respects and obeys my double quotes and boolean operators. If my query returns no results, I get no results. No advertisements, period. The ability to pin, raise, lower, or eliminate the rank of domains in your results.

It's just nice to feel a modicum of respect as someone who's been using computers since shortly after they could read.

Re: Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> their browser is irredeemably buggy Seconded. I gave it a few months, but it just wouldn't improve by itself. To be fair: With a detailed bug report (via Discord, making it excruciatingly hard to find duplicates/follow up), the problem would often be fixed in the next release. But it wasn't 1 or 2, it was more like 20 easily spotted issues. Come on, I can't do all of your testing. I think I've never said it this cl…

Fair enough. We do have over 2,000 open issues [1] for the browser, so buggy is probably an understatement. But we are getting there. More than 1,500 issues have been addressed. And Orion is the fastest browser on Mac and completely zero telemetry at that. Give us a bit more time.. [1] https://oriongeedback.org

I hope you are measuring and attributing churn to its causes.

Re: Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience

#78
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was vaguely aware of Kagi from their posts here in the past and thought it sounded interesting but hadn't bothered trying it out as I'm fairly happy with DDG. I just gave it a quick try there. While some of the features seem promising, the website ranking for example, what they consider a search doesn't feel great from a user perspective. Each step below resulted in part of my quota being used up: 1. Making the ini…

The first 8 sound about right, (9 is probably a bug) and all of them perform a new search which costs us about 1.5 cents to do. There are only three ways for the cost of that search to be paid today: - Advertisers paying it for you - VC money paying it for you - User pays for it Kagi is built for people who want a search engine built for them. There is no way around it but to pay for search like you would pay for don…

Why would (3) also perform an additional new search?

Re: Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience

#79

Can never get into Kagi. You pay for privacy but if it’s ever sold your privacy will be retroactively taken and will be even more valuable since it will be known by the buyer that you pay. Better off using a VPN and duck or Brave imho. In any case these improvements do look very good. Public record search is cool. Lenses improvements look interesting as that seems the be the most unique feature.

Your privacy can't be retroactively taken: Kagi does not store your search history. The only search history you have is local, your own web browser.

I was interested in kagi, but it's not private at all. Your search term is right in the url, meaning the nsa can monitor your search terms. As an intellectually curious person, I search for things I shouldn't. I don't care if someone sees my local history, but I don't want to get put on a watch list for searching for production techniques for Compound B.

Re: Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience

#80
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was vaguely aware of Kagi from their posts here in the past and thought it sounded interesting but hadn't bothered trying it out as I'm fairly happy with DDG. I just gave it a quick try there. While some of the features seem promising, the website ranking for example, what they consider a search doesn't feel great from a user perspective. Each step below resulted in part of my quota being used up: 1. Making the ini…

The first 8 sound about right, (9 is probably a bug) and all of them perform a new search which costs us about 1.5 cents to do. There are only three ways for the cost of that search to be paid today: - Advertisers paying it for you - VC money paying it for you - User pays for it Kagi is built for people who want a search engine built for them. There is no way around it but to pay for search like you would pay for don…

I appreciate the response and I'd like to reiterate that I might just not be the right user with the right expectations. Still, I hope it's useful to hear why someone might be on the fence about the product.

> (9 is probably a bug)

To clarify 9, the request is sent when clicking the cross on the Lens > Edit page rather on than visiting it. This also occurs when returning from maps. In both cases a new search is only billed when the cache has expired. Interestingly, from a totally naive user's perspective, maps don't appear to use up a search.

> If you know of other ways to do this, we are all ears.

I don't have an issue with charging for individual searches. On the whole I think it's a reasonable idea. I do think that some aspects of the UX encourage billing superfluous searches and that, on a purely financial level, Kagi is dis-incentivised from improving this.

Taking steps 5 and 6 as an example: there's no reason for these to be separate billable events. When viewing search results the user interface simply doesn't allow the user to select the sort order in the same operation they select the field. I sincerely doubt that this is intentional but it's easy to see the cynical take.

I think there's also a decent case for longer caching of results, giving users the option to refresh results if it's important they aren't stale. This avoids the current situation where a user might spend some time visiting the firsts webpage in the result set, return wishing to continue perusing subsequent results but end up triggering a billable event. The same applies should someone want to swap between web and images.

A quirk I noticed when trying to trigger shopping results was that searching for "best hair dryer" will display the shopping widget whereas searching "best hairdryer" does not, despite "showing results for best hair dryer" appearing as part of the search.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the feature but searching for variations on "cordless drill", "best cordless drill", "best cordless combi drill", "best cordless percussion drill" never returned any shopping results, should I have expected it to?

To expand on my prior point as to why moving to a total number of trial searches might be harmful to conversions. In evaluating the billing rules and shopping results, I'm now on search 46/100. I haven't yet got into a flow with the product. That might change over the next 50 searches but I still haven't explored: redirects, lenses, personalised results, fine tuning search settings, or just the broader search quality.

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