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Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience

blog.kagi.com

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Re: Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience

#51

Post by freediver »

fafzv wrote: post #10

https://kagi.com/pricing?plan=individual I knew Kagi is paid but I didn't know they had a limit on how many searches you can perform, which is also rather low. But what I really didn't like is how dishonest they are. The lowest tier costs $5 and includes 200 searches per month. That is 6.66 per day! But they say "Includes enough searches for 99% of internet users" because "The average person searches Google three or…

(Kagi founder here)

You are correct in saying that almost all current Kagi users are in the other 1% category (tech savvy professionals who search a lot).

But this plan is not meant for then. This plan is literally made for the 99% of all users who search the web 2-3 times a day, as the statistics show. We would like Kagi to have much broader adoption outside the HN crowd, and a low price plan is essential.

How would you change the wording to make this clearer in a way that does not strike you as dishonest?

Re: Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience

#52

Post by freediver »

cmeacham98 wrote: post #49
freediver wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not implied anywhere? The copy clears says internet users and provides concrete sources for the claim. How would you word it differently?

The obvious implication of putting that on a pricing page is that the average internet user accurately represents the average Kagi user. I have no idea if that's true or not, but if it isn't, then there isn't really a way to "word it differently" - including the information at all is misleading.

I addressed it here not to repeat again https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35810191

Re: Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience

#53

Post by levidos »

hattmall wrote: post #45
fafzv wrote: post #10

https://kagi.com/pricing?plan=individual I knew Kagi is paid but I didn't know they had a limit on how many searches you can perform, which is also rather low. But what I really didn't like is how dishonest they are. The lowest tier costs $5 and includes 200 searches per month. That is 6.66 per day! But they say "Includes enough searches for 99% of internet users" because "The average person searches Google three or…

I don't know, it seems low, but it works for me, but I still just use Google for most things. Like most of my searches are simple things where Google is fine. Recipes, weather, easy queries. For more advanced stuff where Google doesn't work I use kagi with fair success. Like today I was looking for an obituary from 1843 and Google just kept giving me shit about the Ukraine War. Kagi worked! But also gave me some Ukra…

So you essentially have to budget your queries to make sure you have enough. Which is unproductive. The "simple queries" should already be cached aon the server and should not even count to the quota.

Re: Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience

#54

Post by freediver »

levidos wrote: post #53
hattmall wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, it seems low, but it works for me, but I still just use Google for most things. Like most of my searches are simple things where Google is fine. Recipes, weather, easy queries. For more advanced stuff where Google doesn't work I use kagi with fair success. Like today I was looking for an obituary from 1843 and Google just kept giving me shit about the Ukraine War. Kagi worked! But also gave me some Ukra…

So you essentially have to budget your queries to make sure you have enough. Which is unproductive. The "simple queries" should already be cached aon the server and should not even count to the quota.

To clarify, there is no limit on Kagi. Searches are 1.5 cents per search (after those included with subscription) and you can do as many as you’d like. Or get an unlimited plan. A lot of things don’t cost a search (bangs, reloads etc..)

Re: Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience

#55

Post by jareklupinski »

fafzv wrote: post #10

https://kagi.com/pricing?plan=individual I knew Kagi is paid but I didn't know they had a limit on how many searches you can perform, which is also rather low. But what I really didn't like is how dishonest they are. The lowest tier costs $5 and includes 200 searches per month. That is 6.66 per day! But they say "Includes enough searches for 99% of internet users" because "The average person searches Google three or…

i hit my 1000 search limit yesterday, and my cycle is up in a little over a week. I was a little miffed, but there is a helpful button that just redos your search in google

it was my first time using google search in a few months since i started kagi, but.... have google's results become better?

maybe voting with our wallets worked, and google is rolling back some of their less popular recent ranking changes

Re: Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience

#56

Post by freediver »

CapmCrackaWaka wrote: post #50
mtlynch wrote: post #26

I've been using Kagi as my default search engine for four months for both work and personal use, and it's been a great experience. The only time I find myself re-doing a search in Google is when I want to look something up in Google Maps, but everything else, Kagi is on par with Google or better. I really like that Kagi lets me filter out blogspam results and sites that are just remixing content from StackOverflow.

I have been using Kagi with good results too, but some things it completely shits the bed with. I wanted to find the AWS portal, so I searched for "AWS". First result, American Welding Society. Fine. Second is a medium article about AWS. The third is a reddit post about AWS. On down and down, the AWS website doesn't show up on the first page. So I searched "AWS Portal". Again, the AWS website does not show up. This i…

That sounds very odd indeed. I just checked and my results look as expected:

https://ibb.co/hmWNbyK

Do you mind sharing more information about this on kagifeedback.org so that we can have a look?

Re: Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience

#57

Post by freediver »

solarkraft wrote: post #38
esafak wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. Too expensive after the pricing change and their browser is irredeemably buggy. I gave them a chance. On to neeva.

> their browser is irredeemably buggy Seconded. I gave it a few months, but it just wouldn't improve by itself. To be fair: With a detailed bug report (via Discord, making it excruciatingly hard to find duplicates/follow up), the problem would often be fixed in the next release. But it wasn't 1 or 2, it was more like 20 easily spotted issues. Come on, I can't do all of your testing. I think I've never said it this cl…

Fair enough. We do have over 2,000 open issues [1] for the browser, so buggy is probably an understatement.

But we are getting there. More than 1,500 issues have been addressed.

And Orion is the fastest browser on Mac and completely zero telemetry at that. Give us a bit more time..

[1] https://oriongeedback.org

Re: Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience

#58

Post by greggh »

kid64 wrote: post #40
1123581321 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's completely honest. You don't have a sense of typical use. I'd argue search power users make fewer searches a day, too, but like you, and unlike Kagi, I can't back that up with sources.

[flagged]

This is an outright lie by kid64. Why do comments like this stay up here?

Re: Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience

#59

Post by rebeccaskinner »

esafak wrote: post #13
radicalriddler wrote: post #11

Unfortunately I stopped using Kagi just due to it not being worth the money for me personally. But look at the company using bearblog.dev, that's awesome. bearblog.dev remains one of my favorite services I've found through HackerNews.

Same here. Too expensive after the pricing change and their browser is irredeemably buggy. I gave them a chance. On to neeva.

I’m currently on a grandfathered plan. When that’s up I’ve thought about whether I should look around elsewhere due to the price increase. Ultimately I don’t think I want search to be a race to the bottom. There’s no guarantee that any service provider will remain aligned with users and privacy long term, but kagi is bootstrapped and I’d rather pay more than push them toward needing to look for other monetization strategies that might be more adversarial to my interests.

Re: Enhancements to the Kagi Search Experience

#60

Post by eipi10_hn »

freediver wrote: post #51
fafzv wrote: post #10

https://kagi.com/pricing?plan=individual I knew Kagi is paid but I didn't know they had a limit on how many searches you can perform, which is also rather low. But what I really didn't like is how dishonest they are. The lowest tier costs $5 and includes 200 searches per month. That is 6.66 per day! But they say "Includes enough searches for 99% of internet users" because "The average person searches Google three or…

(Kagi founder here) You are correct in saying that almost all current Kagi users are in the other 1% category (tech savvy professionals who search a lot). But this plan is not meant for then. This plan is literally made for the 99% of all users who search the web 2-3 times a day, as the statistics show. We would like Kagi to have much broader adoption outside the HN crowd, and a low price plan is essential. How would…

I'm currently in Early Adopter ($10) plan. If I move to $5 tier plan and move back to $10 plan in the future, which plan would I be at that time? Is it still Early Adopter?
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